I am going with the 12V starter from Goldburgs on my MH44, it was converted to 12V in the 70s. I rebuilt the engine a couple of years ago, and switched the ring gear around. The high compression engine takes a lot of torque, and the 12V really bangs the drive in, so the ring gear is banged up again. My Farmall H has the revised starter drive and does not hit nearly as hard, it is holding up well. I really think a 6V starter running on 12V is fine, as long as the shock of the drive engaging can be compensated.
- Thread starter David G
- Start date
ptfarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- San Antonio, Tx
About the only thing running a 6 volt starter on a 12 volts system is it will burn the starter out quicker. My brother used to drag race a air cooled VW bug with 12:1 compression engine, and he used the VW 6 volt starter on a 12 volt system. He kept a couple of extra 6 volt starters on hand just in case.
rustred
Well-known Member
yes, the very same complaint i have about 12 volts on a 6 volt starter... very hard on the ringgear. the evidence is always there on examination. i also have a 44 special that someone converted to 12 volt and it just makes you cringe when you go to hit the starter. the other one is 6 volt and it starts with one turn of the flywheel. sure want to change this one back to 6 volt.
I have an old fork lift here in the shop that was 6 volt,I changed it to 12 volt 12 years ago, yes the starter punches in a bit strong but it seems to deal with it,, I start it a dozen times a day or more,,I have a Farmal B that I mow the yard with same thing with it..I never roll the ring gears over, you loose the chamfer at the drive when you do, which makes the drive fight it a bit to engage,,it works but not well.
I have no idea if this is a fact but I've heard or read that if smaller cables are run from the 12 volt batt. to the 6 volt starter,the starter drive won't slam into the ring gear nearly as hard.I do know that when I jump start a 6 volt tractor with a charged up 12 volt batt.using l o n g jumper cables straight to the starter the drive doesn't SEEM to hit so hard.
Someone on here should be able to enlighten us regarding this issue.
teddy52food
Well-known Member
If you are burning out starters on 12 volts, I think you have other problems. They all start so much faster that the starter isn't used as much.
teddy52food
Well-known Member
A long cable with a few loops in it will help too. Hooking the ground cable farther from the starter may help too.
The idea that smaller or longer cables will ease the engagement of a 12 volt battery is nonsense. During engagement the starter is freewheeling and doesn't pull a lot of amperage until it starts cranking the tractor. The much smaller current draw of engagement would not cause very much voltage drop from the smaller cables.
Long experience over many 6 to 12V conversions, has shown me that one or both smaller cables will eliminate starter cushion spring or drive / ring gear breakage on IH tractors like the M, or most Moline models. Convert to 12V using the 6V cables, but if a problem breaking the drive or cushion spring, then replace one or both cables to the small cheap 12V type to "tune" starter power to enough but not too much.
GeneMO
Well-known Member
- Location
- Pilot Grove, Mo.
Two Farmall M's running 12V batteries on 6V starters now for 20 some years I guess. You just never grind and grind on the starter. These start easy, you barely need to run them over and they pop off.
Gene
Gene
This isn't going to answer your question Dave,but back 50-60 yrs.ago when we were hopping up our 44s-Ms-WD45s-400s for farming&pulling,we went to 12V on 6V starters on lot wilder tractors then yours and don't know of any gear problems,even after 60 yrs.I still have 4 that way and other then couple starter rebuilds, nothing.One 44 even had to go to 2 batteries to start it when killed hot.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
What will destroy a starter and ring gear teeth quicker than anything is a starter drive that's not fully engaging quickly to get a full mesh or a drive that jumps out once its starts to turn the flywheel.I have a couple tractors here that were changed from 6V to 12V years ago with no starter issues.
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
I wasn't able to find the right starter drives and shearing off 2 on Jubilee and damaging starter ring and 2 on Farmall C I decided to something about it. Bought a 12v starter off YT, works great.
Wasn't able to find a 12v starter for Farmall C, so I decided to tone the battery down. I'm using a 4 year old mower battery that only puts out about 180cca. Been working fine for a few years on old mower battery.
Wasn't able to find a 12v starter for Farmall C, so I decided to tone the battery down. I'm using a 4 year old mower battery that only puts out about 180cca. Been working fine for a few years on old mower battery.
M-MAN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bostic, NC
The problem with 6v to 12v conversions is conventional thinking. For a 6v or 12v system you want the biggest cca battery you can get in there. You also want extra heavy cables to get all the amps you can to the starter. That is ingrained and we all do it automatically.
A conversion needs the opposite when it comes to cca's and cables. You no longer need all those amps so you use a smaller cca battery and smaller cables to reduce the amps to avoid the starter hitting so hard.
Buying the lowest cca battery you can find and buying puny cables that look out of place on a tractor go against the grain but that's what you need to do when you convert to 12v and leave the 6v starter in place.
A conversion needs the opposite when it comes to cca's and cables. You no longer need all those amps so you use a smaller cca battery and smaller cables to reduce the amps to avoid the starter hitting so hard.
Buying the lowest cca battery you can find and buying puny cables that look out of place on a tractor go against the grain but that's what you need to do when you convert to 12v and leave the 6v starter in place.
Switchflicker
Member
I did the same. Used a much smaller, lower Amps battery. In my 12 volt 2N with the 6 volt starter that is.
I know why some of you convert your older tractors to 12 volts but for the life of me I have no problem with my Farmall H on 6 volts. If you keep the connections tight and clean it cranks over great. I only had trouble one time and the connection on the starter switch was a little loose. How can you find a bad connection well just touch the terminals after cranking for a bit, if it's HOT then it's a bad connection. I removed the cable and cleaned it just because I had the socket and ratchet in my hand. I put the cable back on after cleaning it with a little sandpaper and tightened it up and I have to say it cranks fast. I use the "H" for mowing and run it wide open most of the time and it charges with the old 6v generator just fine too! Actually most people convert from 6 volt to 12 volt is because so many others do it and they don't understand how a generator works. It's easier to put a 12v alternator on with an internal regulator thank to try and figure out what's wrong with a generator.
M-MAN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bostic, NC
OR, they rolled, pushed, or pulled enough 6v cars, trucks and tractors 40 to 50 years ago to last them a lifetime. Never had a 6v battery last a whole year. You get tired of buying batteries or cleaning wires when you need to be working.
Dependability is what folks want in a worker and a 6v system is just too picky to fit the bill. 12v with a genny or alt is what I use.
I'm glad to hear some folks have good luck with a 6v system even if I never have.
Dependability is what folks want in a worker and a 6v system is just too picky to fit the bill. 12v with a genny or alt is what I use.
I'm glad to hear some folks have good luck with a 6v system even if I never have.
teddy52food
Well-known Member
Where are you getting 6 volt batteries that don't last a year? My son borrowed a battery from me last fall for his IHC300 & used it last winter. I needed it & he brought it back. It is a Car Quest that is now 10 years old. It still will work in my B for ????? long.
teddy52food
Well-known Member
We have been falsely taught that the magnetic field comes from the current. The field comes from the atoms of the windings excited by the VOLTAGE. These conversions prove it.
M-MAN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bostic, NC
Some of you aren't old enough to remember the old tar top batteries that were made back then. 6v batteries were warranted for 30 days with zero warranty if used in a commercial application. Tractors were considered commercial. 12v batteries were warranted a year. We had a battery rebuilding shop where you could take your old battery and they would pull the top and swap out the bad plates. Even today with the modern batteries that I've seen 6v's aren't warranted but a year while 12v's are anywhere from 2 to 7. Battery life is a crapshoot but even the manufacturer's are telling you the 6v isn't likely to survive a fourth as long as a 12v just by the warranty.
Like I said before I'm glad some folks have good luck with a 6v system even though I never did.
Like I said before I'm glad some folks have good luck with a 6v system even though I never did.
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
JohnB,
If 6v works for you great. As a kid, all our cars and trucks were 6v. Gas stations were equipped to repair generators, usually brushes and bushings. Voltage regulators didn't last, nor did points and condensers. Back then most gas stations were full service, including working on cars, tune ups, repairing charging system. That was normal.
In the winter, it was normal for our 6v tractors not to start. Thick oil and old batteries. Some of the tractors that did start were our old JD's that we cranked over by hand.
Not to mention, the old cars had very dim lights when you were at a stop light.
I for one am grateful the old tractors and cars went to 12v, elimination the problematic charging systems with what we have now.
I will take an alternator any day over a generator. Both my Jubilee and Farmall are 12v. I will never go back to 6v, but I did have issues with 6v starters. Spent about $150 for a ford 12v starter and happy with that.
In your defense, I couldn't buy a 12v farmall starter. So if your 6v works for you great, I would keep it too. My dad 50 years ago converted all his tractors to 12v and was very happy he did.
It's a free country, do what works for you.
If 6v works for you great. As a kid, all our cars and trucks were 6v. Gas stations were equipped to repair generators, usually brushes and bushings. Voltage regulators didn't last, nor did points and condensers. Back then most gas stations were full service, including working on cars, tune ups, repairing charging system. That was normal.
In the winter, it was normal for our 6v tractors not to start. Thick oil and old batteries. Some of the tractors that did start were our old JD's that we cranked over by hand.
Not to mention, the old cars had very dim lights when you were at a stop light.
I for one am grateful the old tractors and cars went to 12v, elimination the problematic charging systems with what we have now.
I will take an alternator any day over a generator. Both my Jubilee and Farmall are 12v. I will never go back to 6v, but I did have issues with 6v starters. Spent about $150 for a ford 12v starter and happy with that.
In your defense, I couldn't buy a 12v farmall starter. So if your 6v works for you great, I would keep it too. My dad 50 years ago converted all his tractors to 12v and was very happy he did.
It's a free country, do what works for you.
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