I'll ask this question here since lots of you guys have engine experience and gas with ethanol. All my small engines have problems running correctly most likely due to running gas with ethanol. They run like some jets are plugged and need to use choke all the time. What's the fix to an engine already with a problem. I've used a lot of carb cleaner with some results but I'm thinking its going to take a carb kit to fix the problem. I'm sure lots of you have experienced the same problem - how did you fix it. They have all had gas/ethanol from day one so its not because the gas mixture is cleaning out junk. Had that problem on my 184 Cub.
- Thread starter Charlie M
- Start date
im no small engine expert but i do have about 20 of them around here and had simaler problems, a kit will help for awhile, depending on how much use the engine sees, another problem is old engines they have gaskets and components like the rubber needle tip that wont stand up to the chemical mixture the government calls gas now, it slowly dissolves these items and plugs or partially plugs passages inside the carb causing poor running or not running at all, ive got 3 here im still trying to fix one is an old generator, and i mead old, maybe 1960s or better. another thing ive discovered totally by accident is running premium gas in small engines helps the heck out of them
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
I run 10% ethanol in all my 4-stroke engines exept one, and have no problems. I have a cheap Coleman generator that has problems, probably because we use it so very little, so I use premium in that, with a little 2-stroke oil. When we use it I run ethanol, but for storage I put chain saw mix in it, seems to solve the problem. I never use ethanol gas in any of my 2-strokes, and have very little problems, and some are 45 years old.
notjustair
Well-known Member
The gas in my big overhead barrel has ethanol in it. When I have it delivered I put a gallon jug of Seafoam in it to help stabilize it. I run that fuel in everything from tractors to grain trucks to mowers. Things I use infrequently (tillers, chainsaws, etc) I use ethanol free (white gas we called it) in. I just buy a five gallon can of it for those. I also use that fuel to mix my gas/oil mix fuel. At the end of the year when I mow for the last time I try to have the last thing run through the engine be the white gas.
I've never had a problem doing it this way.
I've never had a problem doing it this way.
Couple things about the gas we have today that I have learned from talks given by people from the petroleum trade and my experiences. First the fuels we have today only have a shelf life of about 6 months. That is from the time it leaves the depot. Stabilizers help but they aren't a cure all.
Also there are different blends depending on the season. Gas purchased in the winter vaporizes much easier than what you get in the summer.
All this means if you are having trouble getting your snowblower to start ask yourself. Did I just dump in gas I bought last august for my lawnmower? If yes dump it out and put in fresh you got from the station today. Most times that takes care of it.
Small engines seem to be much more sensitive than larger ones. I have run old gas through a 1950 A John Deere to get rid of it but I blend it with fresh also.
I have also heard that Briggs has a diaphragm for the PulsaJet carb that is more tolerant of gasahol. Never put one in so I have no personal experience here but something in my brain tells me they are blue instead of black.
So the short version is use fresh gas that was bought recently.
jt
Also there are different blends depending on the season. Gas purchased in the winter vaporizes much easier than what you get in the summer.
All this means if you are having trouble getting your snowblower to start ask yourself. Did I just dump in gas I bought last august for my lawnmower? If yes dump it out and put in fresh you got from the station today. Most times that takes care of it.
Small engines seem to be much more sensitive than larger ones. I have run old gas through a 1950 A John Deere to get rid of it but I blend it with fresh also.
I have also heard that Briggs has a diaphragm for the PulsaJet carb that is more tolerant of gasahol. Never put one in so I have no personal experience here but something in my brain tells me they are blue instead of black.
So the short version is use fresh gas that was bought recently.
jt
pat sublett
Well-known Member
Use an additive like Stabil. You have to be consistent and put it in as soon as you get the fuel. If you already have the problem, just dissemble the carb and clean, replace gaskets and particularly rubber tipped needles. The ethanol gunk will hide in small jets, particuarly the power (high speed) jet. Some carb cleaners won't touch the gum left by the ethanol. you may have to poke the gunk out of the jet with a fine copper wire. (be carefull and don't damage the jet.)I have had good luck with Briggs and Stratton carb cleaner. Prevention is far better than the cure. I was in small engine repair business for several years. I have seen a lot of engines ruined, particularly vertical shaft engines. carb needle will allow fuel to leak into the oil. Fuel will push oil out and eventually block the piston. I have sold a lot of batteries and starters, when the real problems were blocked cylinders, caused by fuel leaking by an ethanol gummed needle and seat. Most 2cycle oil has a stabilizer in it make sure it does before you buy it.
I don't think I have any that don't run right on cheap 87 octane with 10% ethanol in it. If I do it is from not using them enough and leaving gas sit in them and go bad. Stabil or seafoam added seem to let you get by from one season to another for the mowers and snow blower. I gas does go bad in them you have to take the carb. apart for a good cleaning. A lot of peoples problems are from not keeping the gas clean and end up dumping junk into everything.
A number of years back had trouble with ethanol gas in several of my garden tractors and had to replace some carbs. I now run a stabilizer from Briggs & Stratton that's good for three years .I also put fuel shut offs on every thing and run carb dry. I have now been using the Stratton stabilizer in every thing for the last four years with no problems with fuel systems.
Married2Allis
Well-known Member
Finally, someone has found a use for a Deere. lol
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
Where I live, EPA has has required formulated gas for decades, 10% ethanol. I've had no ethanol related issues in 4 cycle engines, cars, trucks, mowers, tractors, generators, pressure washer, leaf vac. I never allow gas to sit in tank for more than a year before draining. Any engine sitting over the winter without use gets a shot of staybil.
2 cycles may be another story. I hate all 2 cycle engines. Some may blame ethanol on their problems. I refuse to have any 2 cycles, period.
2 cycles may be another story. I hate all 2 cycle engines. Some may blame ethanol on their problems. I refuse to have any 2 cycles, period.
I was told by my mechanic and my Stihl dealer to NOT use gas with ethanol in small engines and tractors. Using ethanol gas in power saws can void your warranty. I had gas going stinky after sitting over winter. I had to take my generator to Honda to be cleaned out. They put gas in it that is good for five years. Gas is pricey but it's cheaper than shop charges. After a little adjustment to some carbs, everything is running great on premium. The only downside is I have to pick up my farm premium gas when I go to the card lock 30 miles away. The extra cost of premium is cheaper than the hassle ethanol causes.
Dave
Dave
tractorguy2
Well-known Member
Ethanol in small engines is nothing but trouble. Will damage the rubber O-ring gaskets and eat your fuel lines. I've seen it happen many,many times. Also two cycle oil will not mix completely with ethanol. Seen many chain saws lockup because of ethanol.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
A lot of the new small engine use lot of plastic parts and the alcohol gas and carb cleaner do not mix well with them. Had a B/S engine in a month or so ago and all the carb gaskets where expanded by the alcohol and carb cleaned so I had to put in a carb kit. Ran about like what your saying yours does so yep likely to nee a kit for it. You also need to when you put the kit in use a small wire or as I do a torch tip cleaner tool to poke out all the passage ways or you will be likely to have to pull the carb back off again
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
If you can get the carb apart without damaging any gaskets, chances are you can get by without a kit. The object is to clean, clean, clean! Poke out every jet and passage. Clean the jets with a piece of wire, make sure you are down to the bare metal. Then put it back and try it.
If it still won't run, double check everything about the carb, check the spark and replace the plug(s), check for vacuum leaks, check the valve lash.
If there are no mixture adjustment screws, the final solution is to rejet. Best to find a replacement main jet, one to experiment with and still have the original, just in case. But if you do have to open it up, it requires surgical accuracy. You need a set of number drill bits, use the shank end to determine the size, then go one step up, try it, keep increasing it until it runs.
If it still won't run, double check everything about the carb, check the spark and replace the plug(s), check for vacuum leaks, check the valve lash.
If there are no mixture adjustment screws, the final solution is to rejet. Best to find a replacement main jet, one to experiment with and still have the original, just in case. But if you do have to open it up, it requires surgical accuracy. You need a set of number drill bits, use the shank end to determine the size, then go one step up, try it, keep increasing it until it runs.
Goose
Well-known Member
I've run 10% ethanol in all of my chain saws, weed eaters, and other small engines for years and never had a problem I could attribute to the fuel. The owner's manuals for both of my Stihl saws simply recommend not using over 10% ethanol. I can't understand how so many fellows on this forum can claim to have so many problems caused by ethanol.
Beyond that, I'm probably the worst person on earth for having any concerns about fuel. Almost all 2 cycle oil has a fuel stabilizer added, and wherever my equipment stops in the fall is how it sits until spring. I can't remember the last time I had a problem with anything starting again in the spring, or after sitting for a long time.
Beyond that, I'm probably the worst person on earth for having any concerns about fuel. Almost all 2 cycle oil has a fuel stabilizer added, and wherever my equipment stops in the fall is how it sits until spring. I can't remember the last time I had a problem with anything starting again in the spring, or after sitting for a long time.
Some of the reasons why some have fewer problems than others is humidity and tempature. Ethanol burns fine,but water mixed with it quickly deteriorate's fuel. Fuel tanks in humid areas combined with tempatures that daily swing condensate's/sweats more than dry climates. Alcohol grab's on to and retain's every drop of water it come's in contact with. Many fuel treatments desighned to help with water in fuel is mostly just alcohol. For that reason you should never alow fuel to stand after it's treated,treat it then burn it emediatly. And obviously,don't routinly put water treat in fuel as ongoing maintainance.
As for need to rebuild carbs,simply adjusting air/fuel is often all that is required. Everything rolls of assembly line running lean as possible. The slightest change will have engine struggling to run. Problem is that provisions weren't made from the factory,actually EPA require's making adjustments next to impossible. Gearheads often find ways of circumventing fixed jets but a word of warning. Record every 1/8th turn of screws because if you lose track,the old rule of one and a half turns from closed as a starting point no longer apply and you will never establish base point for both screws.
As for need to rebuild carbs,simply adjusting air/fuel is often all that is required. Everything rolls of assembly line running lean as possible. The slightest change will have engine struggling to run. Problem is that provisions weren't made from the factory,actually EPA require's making adjustments next to impossible. Gearheads often find ways of circumventing fixed jets but a word of warning. Record every 1/8th turn of screws because if you lose track,the old rule of one and a half turns from closed as a starting point no longer apply and you will never establish base point for both screws.
If you've left the 10% 'gas' in too long and can't get her to start get a bottle of 'Start Your Engines' at the parts house or online and follow the directions on the bottle. I had to do this to a couple of 4-wheelers this Spring and they both now run better than they ever have so it must clean out the residue from the carb that's left by old 10% 'CRAPenol'. Just another example of our government 'taking care of us'! :twisted: I guess they never heard 'If it ain't broke - don't fix it'! :roll:
I know some folks never have a problem with ethanol fuels, but I know a lot more that do. I've had to replace everything from the filter to the jug on numerous chainsaws and weedeaters. I've seen plastic parts "melt" or swell to the point that a set of Channel Locks were required to get a gas cap off. Stabil has been a dismal failure for me and I will not use again even if it's gifted to me. The various snake oils like Startron I'm still deciding on. I can't say do or don't work so far. The best bet is 91 non-ethanol in all 2 strokes, especially if they are going to sit for more than a couple weeks. Maybe it's NY gas or our cold, damp climate or just bad luck, but when everything from chainsaws to lawn mowers to outboards and snowmobiles have issues with fuel, issues clearly related directly to the fuel, it's pretty obvious that there is truth to our observations. I suppose if you're one of those people that mixes a gallon of fresh gas every few days, runs the machine dry, never leaves fuel in a tank for long periods and meticulously maintains your equipment then ethanol isn't a problem. For the rest of us in the real world, problems occur.
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