1952 Feguson TO30 hard start?

dcburn · May 5, 2016

Hey guys, I'm a new guy to all of this and have a question.
I recently bought a 1952 TO30 that has been sitting for 30+ years. Engine was stuck. Freed the engine fairly quickly, she was housed indoors the entire time she sat. I had the head professionally rebuilt, new rings and bearings and overall cleaned her up. Brand new Interstate battery and new 2 sized cables, still rocking the 6 volt system. Replaced all the old wires. Was told by professional that the starter internally looked really good, brushes etc. and only needed a new stud since it was broke loose. He also made my cables. Anyways, I was turning the flywheel manually to get my pistons to top dead center to adjust valves and it moves pretty stiff. Also the crank moved stiff when I was underneath putting in the new bearings. Starter back in and it just makes a clunk noise, like the starter is engaging but doesn't have enough power to turn the engine over. Any suggestions? An ole timer suggested I put it in 4th and get pulled till the engine starts and let it sit and idle?

Mike M · May 5, 2016

What for clearance do you have on the main and rod bearings ? Maybe something is not correct ?

Steve@Advance · May 5, 2016

It's hard to know just how hard it was to turn when you were assembling it. And are you sure the starter is really trying to turn it? You can put a wrench on the front nut and try to turn it through. It should not be that difficult, after all, they were intended to be hand crankable.

With a new rope rear main seal there will be some resistance, but if the crank was getting hard to turn as the mains were tightened, something is seriously wrong! Did you measure the crank, and order the appropriate size bearings? Was everything clean? Were the ring end gaps checked?

Your options are to try to pull start it, but "if" the bearings are tight, the crank and new bearings will be destroyed, along with filling the engine with metal shavings, possibly spinning a main bearing! I know pull starting a tight engine has been done, but I could never get so lucky!

The other option is to drop the pan and find out what is wrong. You should be able to hand move each rod laterally on the crank. If loosening the main bearing caps makes a difference, there is a clearance problem.

dcburn · May 5, 2016

I haven't tried to turn the nut with a wrench yet but i will. The ring gaps were good. Being a rookie I worked very closely with the machinist who did the head work. He measured my pistons and got me the correct rings and also got the bearings for me. Actually I just went there and got his engine oil primer so I want to try that. When I was adjusting the valves I was turning the flywheel with a lever through the starter hole, pretty slow turning but the hole is small so you only get so far. My machinist asked me if the guy who repaired the starter actually did a bench test to see if it was putting out enough?

jacksun65 · May 5, 2016

Did you plastigauge the bearings to see what the clearance was. if not that would be an excellent place to start.

dcburn · May 5, 2016

NoI didnt, I know, rookie mistake! I could just barely reach the crank nut with a wrench, could move it back and forth but I really had no room. I'll order the hand crank. I did notice that the starter was starting to bump the crank

dcburn · May 5, 2016

(quoted from post at 14:23:00 05/05/16) NoI didnt, I know, rookie mistake! I could just barely reach the crank nut with a wrench, could move it back and forth but I really had no room. I'll order the hand crank. I did notice that the starter was starting to bump the crank

dcburn · May 5, 2016

I'll drop the pan and measure the bearing clearance. The bearings in it were 20 over so that's what I put back in. I torqued the end caps according to spec. Before I had installed the bearings and no rods were attached I remember turning the crank down (easiest for me to install bearings)and she moved pretty stiffly. I'm ordering the hand crank and new belt because I had forgotten I needed it.

MSM · May 5, 2016

Didn't put a main or rod cap on backwards by any chance? If you did it will turn hard...just a thought

dcburn · May 5, 2016

I really doubt I put a cap on backwards. I was really careful about putting the caps back where they were and the same bolts in the same hole. I was so nervous the tangs weren't going in right I took everything apart one by one to make sure everything went together properly. I didn't pull out the crank and am wondering if it's something in that. She sat a long time, moving the crank but back and forth actually freed it up a little more to where the starter moved it a little, but not enough room to fully turn so I'll get a hand crank. Trying to think positive thoughts ha!

Den N Ms · May 5, 2016

Dcburn,Do you have any of the rod caps swapped to a different connecting rod?They MUST be put back on the same rod that they came off of,with the tangs facing each other (on the same side).Also the main bearing caps MUST go back in the same order ie 1,2,3,4 with the tangs facing each other (on the same side).Remove the pan and check things out,something is wrong! Get some Plastigauge and use it.Don't try to pull start it or you ruin the bearings and crank!The rods should all have some side to side movement if they are correct.You also MUST pre lube all bearings with Lubriplate or at the least engine oil.

gene bender · May 5, 2016

We put a new engine together crank was ground and they furnished bearings after the last rod was installed could not turn engine removed the bearings and with a ball mike found out one bearing was wrong is was a 30 over in a 10 over box therefore 20thous too tight got correct bearing and away we go so from now on i will mike the new bearings before installing to make sure.

dcburn · May 5, 2016

I was very particular in how the caps came off and which bolts went into which hole, my friend made sure I knew that as I was starting. I did use bearing lube. One question though, this being my first time I never paid attention to which way the rods went in. I was told the numbers stamped on the rods face the cam shaft? Is that correct? That is the way I reinstalled them.

(quoted from post at 16:33:51 05/05/16) Dcburn,Do you have any of the rod caps swapped to a different connecting rod?They MUST be put back on the same rod that they came off of,with the tangs facing each other (on the same side).Also the main bearing caps MUST go back in the same order ie 1,2,3,4 with the tangs facing each other (on the same side).Remove the pan and check things out,something is wrong! Get some Plastigauge and use it.Don't try to pull start it or you ruin the bearings and crank!The rods should all have some side to side movement if they are correct.You also MUST pre lube all bearings with Lubriplate or at the least engine oil.

dcburn · May 5, 2016

I'm gonna take them apart again and check the bearings and make sure they are all the same

dcburn · May 5, 2016

I never noticed but are the caps numbered as well as the rods being numbered?

Richard L · May 5, 2016

In my opinion you should have measured the crank to find out what size bearings you need. Don't just replace the old bearings with new ones of same size without measuring. Possibly the crank should have been turned. The guys on the Harry Ferguson board are very knowledgeable about your problem.

dcburn · May 6, 2016

Sorry to let you down Richard, guess I learn the hard way. It will take me all of ten minutes to expose the crank

(quoted from post at 19:19:19 05/05/16) In my opinion you should have measured the crank to find out what size bearings you need. Don't just replace the old bearings with new ones of same size without measuring. Possibly the crank should have been turned. The guys on the Harry Ferguson board are very knowledgeable about your problem.

dcburn · May 6, 2016

Quite possibly I may have been a little heavy on my end cap torquing. Think I set wrench for heavy side of torque spec and then gave a little extra obviously not thinking of turning crank

(quoted from post at 00:46:20 05/06/16) Sorry to let you down Richard, guess I learn the hard way. It will take me all of ten minutes to expose the crank

(quoted from post at 19:19:19 05/05/16) In my opinion you should have measured the crank to find out what size bearings you need. Don't just replace the old bearings with new ones of same size without measuring. Possibly the crank should have been turned. The guys on the Harry Ferguson board are very knowledgeable about your problem.

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1952 Feguson TO30 hard start?

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