Stuck motor

37chief · Jun 8, 2016

There has been a lot of stories about a motor locked up. I thought that's not good. I have a AC Model M crawler, that has been sitting for around 4 years. I tried to crank over. Stuck big time. I sprayed some rust buster in the plug holes. Tried it again today, still stuck. If I pull it what gear would be best, with less strain on everything? I was wondering why some are stuck, and others not. I think a motor with a lot of blow by, has the cylinders lubed, and a tight motor with less blow by has less oil in the cylinders. What do you think? I tried four more tractors one more was stuck. Going to watch them more closely.Stan

Steve@Advance · Jun 8, 2016

You would want to pull it in high gear.

But I would give it my best shot at getting it loose by hand first.

Billy NY · Jun 8, 2016

I'm not so sure pulling is a good idea, given the potential for engine damage.

We had an IH 460 way back when, dear ole dad let it sit too long, that and with an exhaust leak under the hood, which must have let moisture in given what I recalled and where it was leaking. They tried to pull it in gear, good thing was it would not budge. This had a rebuilt motor, so the tolerances were not like a worn one.

One of my D7's is stuck, stack was covered, but when I retrieved it from the guy who borrowed it in the late 70's, it had sat a long time when I hauled it out in '03 or so. I was not able to get penetrant in the injectors, but was able to get some through the exhaust ports, don't think it did any good. I machined up a thick rod with a cross piece through it, and fit that to the big nut on the crankshaft on the front of the engine. We tried with a long pipe to turn it over, just tightened the nut slightly is all we did. The heads will have to come off, and I never liked the idea of not doing that, given the damage that can be done to the bore or liners in this case.

hd6gtom · Jun 8, 2016

DO not pull it, dad did that and bent rods on his tractor.

CenTex Farmall · Jun 8, 2016

I'm working on one now, an HD6 with a stuck motor. Ran about 4 years ago but apparently wind blew the rain cap open and got water in it.

The owner wanted to try pulling it but I suggested we dig some more. Pulled the muffler off and 3 exhaust ports had water standing. I pulled the head and #3 was full of water and is stuck big time. The motor probably has 100 hrs on overhaul and is relatively tight.
Remarkably, the valves and valve seats did not really corrode but then they are of good steel.

I thing they stick worse when they're tight vs. a worn machine. The water will leak past worn pistons easier and not sit.

David G · Jun 8, 2016

I would try prying on ring gear teeth first

Leroy · Jun 8, 2016

Stan, one question, is it gas or diesel? Diesel the fuel is a lube, gas not so could that make a difference?

da.bees · Jun 8, 2016

I add 3 to 5 oz of mixture (50% transmission fluid/10% marvel mystry oil/40% acytone),leave it sit for 5+ days then try rocking tractor in high gear. Repeat for a month or until it moves. I never hit starter or pul in gear until I have turned engine a complete revolution by hand. Leave plugs out before turning engine with starter,pulling in gear or turning more than a few degrees by hand.

hector gemme · Jun 8, 2016

You could removed the startor and try with big screw driver on flywell and maybe the startor is freeze and make sure the master cluch is't angaged and the hydrolic lever is't angaged too

gene bender · Jun 8, 2016

Did you look in the hole when the plugs were out if the cycl walls are rusted tear down aint nothing that will cut the rust and make it a good engine.

37chief · Jun 8, 2016

It's a gas motor. Stan

OldFarmall450 · Jun 8, 2016

My older brother turned wrenches all his life, had a dozen "projects" going when he passed away this January, and ALWAYS said "Save the motor overhaul for last, or not at all." If the motor used oil he said it would rarely lock up, because the worn rings let oil coat the cylinders and pistons. A rebuilt motor with new rings wipes the oil from both and if left alone will lock up in a hurry.

It seems some people will restore a tractor, car, plane, etc. Then they rebuild the motor and put it in their barn, cranking it when company shows up or family gatherings. That motor is destined to lock up.

If a motor doesn't have the compression to do what you want of it, then a rebuild is in order. But remember that motor MUST be turned over regularly or it will lock up tight as Dick's hatband.

Dad found a model A JD, the motor was locked from rain. He pulled the plugs and poured straight marvel mystery oil in them. He did this monthly, and after a year of this the motor broke free and is running today, 30 years later.

Good luck with your motor, don't rush it and you may not have to go thru it again.

ET

old · Jun 8, 2016

First off NEVER good to try to pull start a locked up engine or your likely to be opening it up due to broken rods and other such parts. Me I would pull the plugs out one at a time fill the cylinder with ATF then put the plug back in to keep dirt etc out. If it has a vertical exhaust I would also pour ATF down it till it will not hold any more then cap the exhaust and let it sit a week or so. Then pull the plugs back out and use short fast taps on the starter and see if it has freed up. I have freed up well over 30 engine doing that

Pete in Holland MI · Jun 8, 2016

As others said, don't pull it. You most likely WILL do some minor or major damage.

If you had water coming out of the manifold, have you checked the oil sump for water ? Most likely some there, which means the crank and bearings may be rusty too.

Need to try the various tricks to loosen up the engine prior to trying to start it.

Pete

jimg.allentown · Jun 8, 2016

Pulling it is the best way I know to do more damage to it than it already has.

A number of things can lock up an engine. Water in one or more cylinders will most certainly hydro lock it. A mouse nest could be in it. They can get through some really small spots. If it was stopped with a valve open, a mouse could have gotten in and built a nest. Rust is probably the number one reason for a stuck engine. Rust in the cylinders, rust in the bearings, or rust on any moving part. In any case, forcing it will simply compound whatever problem the engine already has.

My vote would go to doing some investigation to see why the engine is stuck. Once you know the cause, you can proceed from there without making it into scrap.

RBoots · Jun 8, 2016

I know this isn't the same, but there was a rototiller in the barn across the road at our one farm. I don't know how long it had been there, or where it came from. I tried to pull it over probably 5 years ago and it was stuck tight. It was out of the way and I didn't think anything of it. Last fall I thought maybe I'd see if I could do something with it, so I pulled the plug and poured it full of ATF. Put the plug back in, and left it. Walked by it 3 weeks ago and tried to give it a pull and it spun right over. Rebuilt the carb, bought a new spark plug and air filter, and fired it up. Rototilled the garden 2 weeks ago, ran great, now I'll put it back in the barn where I found it.

Ross

Aaron Ford · Jun 8, 2016

Jack up one rear tire and rock it by hand while in 3rd/4th gear, perhaps?

Aaron

donjr · Jun 8, 2016

The rear tire on a crawler????

donjr · Jun 8, 2016

Just a suggestion, but, put a block under the hand crank with a jack on it and jack the front end up on the handcrank. Juice it down good again and sit back. When it drops, jack it up some more, and keep on doing it.

Rons b · Jun 8, 2016

I've freed up a couple stuck motors and did it with the ATF acetone mix and a 6 foot bar on the front crank pulley and do it a little at a time. let the oil mix set fro several days then rock the bar back and forth a little then add more oil let set and rock some more even if its a 1/4" at a time just keep rocking until it loosens up.

TomA in CA · Jun 9, 2016

That is not your main Model M is it? It seems like you used it a few months ago.
If not, let it sit with ATF in it, pry on ring gear if it has one.

37chief · Jun 9, 2016

I have a lot of them. Most of them just sit for years. Stan

Aaron Ford · Jun 9, 2016

Aw snap..... Aaron

buickanddeere · Jun 9, 2016

Purchase a gasket set and tear it down for cleaning and inspection before something gets smashed.

bill b va · Jun 9, 2016

i watched someone free up a stuck engine with a grease gun . after trying various ways to turn it with penetrating oil in the plug holes they let it soak over night . next day they checked the rocker arms to determine which cylinder was coming up on compression . next they used a grease gun to fill the combustion chamber with grease . they then broke the insulator out of a spark plug and welded a pipe coupling in the spark plug . next put a zerk fitting in the coupling and connected the grease gun and pumped . after some pressure build up the engine broke free . this was done with all plugs out . after being able to turn the engine completely over they used the starter to further loosen the motor . next they started the engine with NO PLUG in the cylinder with the grease . grease flew every where . i don't remember what engine it was but was a big 8 cyl. truck engine .

Stuck motor

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