MSRP vs Invoice

Keeping this tractor related, looking for a pickup to pull a 35' flat bed with my two old Farmalls. I know what my present truck is worth. The
dealers kind of get bent out of shape when I ask to see the invoice on a new truck. So, what is the usual markup from invoice that they are
working on? Maybe this information will help make life a little easier. Thanks

The only price you will see is the sticker price on the window.

Try Edmunds.com As I remember, they give invoice prices in addition to sticker prices.

Stan

You should care less what invoice says anyway.
With all the kick backs and incentives for selling xx cars per month and other things a dealer could sell every car on his lot for invoice and still keep the doors open.

To give you an example.
My wife is the sister of someone that works at a Ford dealer.
Family members can buy a car $500 over invoice no problem. They will even show you the invoice of what they supposedly paid for the car.
I went in a different day; talked to a different salesman and was able to get a price $650 less than she was quoted. So they were willing to sell me the car $150 less than they paid for it.
And we bought from a different dealer that gave us a even better price.

Look at Edmunds and look at what people are actually paying, then push for the lower price, no trade, cash. If they don't want to talk, go to another dealer. I bought a Duramax 9 years ago, MSRP 43K, for $29K. Last year , I bought a Grand Cherokee, MSRP $38K for $29K. It's actually fun to see their faces when you walk out on their lowest price......

I agree with what you are saying. I don't want to pay $500 over invoice and I think the dealer is currently getting a good discount also. Just trying to feel confident with an offer.

Local Ford dealer starts out at "invoice" price.

As others said, invoice bears little relation to what the dealer pays. Last truck I bought, list was 40 I paid 32. last car I went online and got the dealer's internet price. I couldn't get them to budge from that.

I agree with this to a point, however, when a dealership buys a new car, it transports in and has a problem, paint got a rock chip from delivery, filthy dirty and needs detailed, windshield rock chipped, what have you. IT HAPPENS. Now, the dealer and the supplier probably share cost, maybe even some insurance money change hands, but this is why the dealerships have to make money, through markups. I have noaffiliation with any car dealership, but I don't mind paying the same as everybody else pays for a product, I would rather do without than low ball to save $200 and have the dealership close the doors next month. Profit is not a bad thing nor a dirty thing, profit is necessary. Buy and instead of asking for more money off, ask for something. Ask for a new bedliner, ask for a hitch, ask for free tire rotations and an alignment, ask for 2 sets of windshield wipers and a years worth of oil changes, they will probably deal with you and not be all bent over low prices.

What baffles the he** out of me is the TV ads that show $12,500 off in dealer incentives. What does that actually mean ? 1. They are charging $12,500 too much or 2. They are too stupid to lower the sale price. Sorry, don't get it. When we bought our last new car, I dickered as usual. They tried to add shipping and dealer prep. at the time of signing. Got up and walked out. Salesman chased me to the truck with some lame B.S. I said you want to sell this thing, I am not paying for shipping because you wouldn't be able to sell it if it wasn't here and 'dealer prep' -same thing. Got it for my price.

84% of the sticker price comes pretty close.

The ACTUAL price that a dealer pays for a vehicle is a closely guarded secret. In the first place, the ACTUAL price is not known until AFTER the sale, and all of the little "secret" kickbacks, incentives, and whatever else are all figured in. Next, figure in that he manufacturer has built in safeguards to keep the dealer from selling to low and endangering his business. Most of the numbers that you see on a sales order are fictional to begin with. Car salesmen are a slippery bunch. They are at the same time both diplomats and thieves so to speak. Even after you make your best deal, you can be assured that the dealer is making a good profit.

"Invoice" price is relatively easy to determine but bears little relationship to what a dealer actually paid for a car.

MSRP is the meaningless "sticker" price. "Invoice" is the also meaningless published dealer cost that is not actually the dealer cost. Dealer cost is what I pay as a salaried GM retiree. The dealer still makes money after I pay "dealer cost."

There is no fixed percentage difference between the three prices. The mark-ups vary according to model, etc. Margins are much smaller than they once were.

Dean

I am sure times have changed since i was i a dealership but back then when new cars came in for some reason it was part of my job to check them in and get the packets . Inside the packets there was the window sticker that went on the car and always on the left rear window . Then there was the INVOICE that the G M got and went into his book of tales and lies . THEN there was FACTORY BILLING invoice , The price they had to pay till the factory might drop or kick back on slow moving models to get them sold . SO when a hard case was dickern and playing hard ball with the salesman THEN the game started with the running back and forth to the G M and when things got down to the nitty gritty here comes the G M out with the book of lies and shows the customer THE INVOICE and starts the song and dance plus the dog and pony show . Then the next move was he would say something to the salesman like we can make this happen if you take a hit on the commission and they would sell the car but they were still making a nice chunk of change . The more you sold the less they paid for the cars . They would buy heavy when there was factory deals if you took this many of this and somany of that and oh your pushing the performance line so here you take say a 100 Road Runners and seventyfive Barracudas and a 100 dusters with V 8 and four gears are sagging so if fifty of those Duster are equiped with four speed and 340 with other packages you can get them for this . Same as in the parts dept , my district rep would come in and he always had a super deal on something if i would take 24000 plugs and 5000 sets of points and cond . Antifreeze , oil by the case , wiper blades Transmission seal and gskt pakg. shocks tires , prices unheard of Plugs for 16 cents a piece points and cond. sets for 30 cents , shocks for a buck . What part Number you ordered did not matter as long at it totaled the special . And they would throw in free wind breakers for the whole service dept , now what you did with the FREE wind breakers was up to the parts manage he could just hand them out or he could sell them . Where i worked employees would get a new car for 400 over billing invoice plus tax and title .

Just looking at your comments......why do you think it is your obligation to tell the dealer what you will pay. Dealers get very, very, very rich selling cars and trucks to people who walk into the dealership and declare " I want that truck but I won't give you a penny over (fill in the price). Do you honestly think your stab in the dark offer has anything thing to do with actual transaction prices throughout the country. I could probably have a good down payment on a new truck if I had a dollar for every time I have heard someone brag " I told that SOB I was only willing to pay X" and he finally accepted my offer rather than go broke......really. Look at some of these dealerships......do people really think they were built by constantly selling vehicles to staunch bargainers for a loss ?? Do your homework and let the dealer make the first move.....what do you have to lose ?

There use to be a service called Car Facts. (Not Carfax)They broke down by the VIN what the manufacturer sold the vehicle for to the dealer. I can say this, my 08 2500 Duramax was showing a tad under 53000 on the sticker, and I got it for 41,500. My 13 Z71 was showing 37000 and change on the sticker, got it for 29000.

Last Chebby p/u I bought after looking at other Chev dealers and GMC dealers, I found the one I wanted at what I thought was a very good price. I hemmed and hawed, said Well I dunno, I got them down to their so-called bottom price, as low as they could go, I said I think I'll go over to the GMC dealers. See you later maybe. I hadn't gone 10 miles and they called and dropped their price another $500. I bought it, was satisfied. My advice, make your absolute best price, their lowest bottom price, then walk out and say well, mayve, I'm going over to the other guys....

There's some pretty good advice here. I don't buy very often and I keep my trucks until they are ready for the scrap yard. I learned the 1st time I traded to buy out right and don't trade. After I got my new truck home and really got to putting a pencil to the trade I figured that I paid them to take my trade. I also learned to really do your home work and be willing to walk away. Don't be afraid to low ball them an offer. If they know that you are serious about buying, they will get back with you. If I can't pay cash I have my financing arranged through my bank. The interest rate may be a little higher than what the dealership advertises but it's a bargaining tool for a much lower price.

There are many deals out there. I just bought my 2016 1500 Silverado that stickered for $48,375 for $34,670. The dealer discounted $5750 and Chev rebated $8250. I didn't play any games or make any threats. I went to three dealers and bought from the one with the best price. GM gave the dealers $1500 of on select vehicles so I looked for one of them. Farm Bureau membership gets a $500 rebate. I did a lot of pricing on line and GM sent me a special $1500 rebate code to use. The dealer said that I was the first one they had seen in a long time who got the truck for the lowest advertised price. They also allowed more for my trade than anyone else. They are a dealer who sells 600 vehicles a month. You had to act fast or the vehicle you just test drove would be sold.

No dealer is going to sell a vehicle at a loss. It doesn't happen.

Regardless of what you pay for a vehicle, the dealer is making money. If they close their doors next month, they were already in serious trouble when you bought your vehicle from them, and you probably should have seen the signs (i.e. little inventory, weeds growing up around the building, few people around during business hours).

Why waste your own time asking to see their swindle sheets? Do your research. Price around at half a dozen or more dealers and someone, somewhere.... will have something they're willing to deal on. Then use that info to leverage a deal on the one you want.... and that's a matter of YOU giving them a number and being prepared to walk if they balk.
From what I've observed locally, I don't think most of the salesmen even know the actual dealer invoice price... I mean... the REAL dealer invoice price. That would be a tightly held secret in which only a couple people would know... and most of it based on kickbacks from the manufacturer based on volume and promotional discounts. I've had a sales guy who I know well.... try to convince me that the dealer only makes 200 bucks on a new car sale. Simple logic alone would dictate that this doesn't keep the lights on or build the million dollar homes that the owners live in.....

Rod

That rebate is considered income for taxes, isn't it.

From what I've seen on the last of our deals and mother-in-laws you take list price then work you deals and rebates and think your doing good. Then you go sit down with the F&I guys and they work their magic with doc. fees and other fees and then don't forget you have to pay uncle sam ! In the end you are back up to paying MSRP ! Next time (may never happen) I'm just going to walk in and say I'll take it for this much out the door and point at the sticker.
So far all of our dealers seem to stick pretty much the same low ball on trade in.

multiply msrp by 76% be mighty close

lots of places to look online.

with some Chrysler models you can usually look up the exact car on the lot online. I presume you can with Ford and GM but i've never quite figured out GM's trim level system and then take all those options and look at TRUECAR (or Edmunds or whatever) and see what you could get the car for.

I've used TRUECAR thru USAA twice now. once you pick your car and options they give 3 "local" dealers that have the car or something close to it for sale for the discounted price. Sometimes you may not be able to find the exact car you want at a dealer so you look at the dealer and then enter those options into the Truecar.

you can actually even deal a bit better than true car. 1st time we got another 200 off and the 2nd time they thru in $600 option on a slightly different car. that wasn't even a truecar dealer. i figure if a few dealers can match truecar they can all(most) sell them for that price too.

going near the end of the month and around June and July has better options for getting a good deal. Right now they are trying to get rid of