JD Service Issue Revisited

The JD service issue has made the front page of MSN Money.

Dean
JD Service

Seems funny to own the old tractors and be talking about hacking a tractor computer. I guess it is a serious topic if you own the new stuff. What happens when the computer becomes obsolete on your half million dollar tractors? The way computers go seems like the computer would be obsolete long before the tractor is worn out.

I've had the same thoughts. Another reason why I would rather stick with the old stuff.

(quoted from post at 09:41:28 03/29/17) Seems funny to own the old tractors and be talking about hacking a tractor computer. I guess it is a serious topic if you own the new stuff. What happens when the computer becomes obsolete on your half million dollar tractors? The way computers go seems like the computer would be obsolete long before the tractor is worn out.

Click to expand...

These "computers" are nothing like your "Windoze" machines. They are specifically dedicated to do a set number of specific things and that is all. They do not get "obsolete" and if the manufacturer needs to upgrade some code for them they do not break existing functionality like Micro$oft, or even RedHat, can do.

(quoted from post at 07:54:42 03/29/17)

(quoted from post at 09:41:28 03/29/17) Seems funny to own the old tractors and be talking about hacking a tractor computer. I guess it is a serious topic if you own the new stuff. What happens when the computer becomes obsolete on your half million dollar tractors? The way computers go seems like the computer would be obsolete long before the tractor is worn out.

Click to expand...

These "computers" are nothing like your "Windoze" machines. They are specifically dedicated to do a set number of specific things and that is all. They do not get "obsolete" and if the manufacturer needs to upgrade some code for them they do not break existing functionality like Micro$oft, or even RedHat, can do.

Click to expand...

All computers are designed that way AS WELL AS THE SOFTWARE TO OPERATE THEM! And yea, eventually that computer on that tractor will become obsolete as a means of forcing the sale of new equipment. If say that 10 year old tractor won't run without that computer and that computer is no longer supported the tractor is basically scrap. NEW TRACTOR TIME! Unlike cars where there is a large demand for aftermarket parts suppliers are not going to jump into making and selling replacement computers or sensors for what few tractors are other there. Not worth it to sell 6 or 7 components a year.

Rick

They do go obsolete had a computer on my 2002 volvo semi that only one dealership would work on because they had the old computer that could talk to the one in the truck.
And no they would not sell me the old programs needed to support the old computer in the truck. So in 2012 got into an accident and they totaled the 10 yr old truck
because of age.

I am not up on this issue as such but I figure if the computer goes obsolete some outfit will build a by pass unit and the tractor will run. Probably not meet emissions etc. Seen it before I can remember when magnetos got changed to distributors, 6volt to 12, points replaced with a electronic gadget. Just my thoughts

Really what difference does it make? In a few years all you'll be able to buy is one of those autonomous tractors. It won't be controlled by a "farmer". It'll be controlled by some computer programmer yuppie that doesn't have a clue what rain is for. Farmers will be just as obsolete as the tractors they're driving.

While you are correct that these computers do a dedicated set of instructions and don't truly become obsolete the interface to them does not fall under any universal and backwards compatible interface like they do on the automotive side. If the ag and construction machinery side could adopt something more universal like the OBD 1&2 systems on cars we would be much better off but then they would not be able to control their own markets like they do.

It will be interesting in 25 years if there will be a niche market for universal programmable controllers out to replace the then old no longer supported control modules in todays machinery.

Part of my job required programming or more precisely understanding programming and buying software. Most of the problems with software/firmware today are caused by haste, sloppiness, and lack of knowledge and insufficient testing. Haste--the companies are in such a hurry to get the software or product on the market that they do not allow sufficient time to get the program to run correctly the same reason for insufficient testing. Sloppiness--the programmer in working to get the software/firmware running correctly insert "patches" to fix an issue then when it is fixed do not go back and clean up the code; i.e. remove the old unused code which may have directions to it elsewhere. Lack of knowledge--a rooky. Finally insufficient testing--Through either haste to get the product in the field or/and arrogance companies and programmers do not allow testing to fully verify the code works right.
There is one more thing that gets in the way--the programmers believe that the code belongs to them. They totally forget that someone, namely the customer, paid for their time to write that code and therefore owns it. As a group they refuse to put notes in the3 source code or allow the customer to have it. John Deere is no different than most other of the companies. If they want to keep the software and charge for "maintaining" it then they MUST make it clean with left over code, well tested so it does what it is supposed to do all the time every time and MOST IMPORTANTLY not ask the customer to pay for it in the purchase price of the equipment.

Remember I bought equipment with software and software only my attitude that sine I paid for writing the code the government owned cause more then one fight. Which the companies never won. I required the source code be delivered with notes so another programmer could figure out what each module was doing; and that the code be fully tested. Remember my big hammer that software/firmware was going on a ship that went to sea without the programmer or into a weapon that did not carry the programmer with it. I would pose this question to the CEO "Do you really want your kid in that ship, in a fight and have your program quit with no way to get it fixed?" "Or depending on that weapon to win a fight and keep him/her alive?" One of those question variation won every contracting fight.

I will say that there is one company that believes this and delivers the source code with the ship or weapon.

"Most of the problems with software/firmware today are caused by haste, sloppiness, and lack of knowledge and insufficient testing. Haste--the companies are in such a hurry to get the software or product on the market that they do not allow sufficient time to get the program to run correctly the same reason for insufficient testing. Sloppiness--the programmer in working to get the software/firmware running correctly insert "patches" to fix an issue then when it is fixed do not go back and clean up the code; i.e. remove the old unused code which may have directions to it elsewhere. Lack of knowledge--a rooky. Finally insufficient testing--Through either haste to get the product in the field or/and arrogance companies and programmers do not allow testing to fully verify the code works right."

BINGO!

Dean, who was a computer hardware/software engineer for years in a previous life