Time To Move - New Tractor Workshop Planning

Hello all!

Well, as we are making preparations to put our townhouse on the market (hopefully by March 1st), I figured I would talk to many of you experts who have 'been there, done that' in building their tractor shop. I am going from a one-stall garage townhouse to hopefully a home with a 2-3 car attached garage that may or may not have an existing outbuilding to use as a shop (haven't found the home yet). The reason I am posting now is because I know it will take months of planning if I have to build my own shop. I only want to do this once, and want to do as much as I can myself to keep costs low (and learn a few things too). I currently have 5 tractors, and do not intend on having more than 10 at one time (IH H, IH M with loader, F20, JD A, Case SC - all narrow fronts). Here are some of the things I have been thinking about.

Size: At least 30x40, but would LOVE 40x60. Depends on the area I move into and the city ordinances. I have no issues 'stacking' tractors in to maximize space. Parking outside to do work in the shop is also of no worry.
Concrete thickness - 4, 5, or 6"? It will be reinforced. Given the size of tractors I currently have, my IH M is probably the heaviest and will remain close to the heaviest.
1 overhead door, probably at least 10 foot. 1 service door, 2-4 windows.
12 foot ceilings.
Would like a floor drain, but many cities around me have some strict rules on that.
Pole barn or stick built? Pole barn is probably less expensive. Eventually I would like to heat it in the winter (I am in Minnesota).
May put a small loft with in one area with shelves to store some spare parts.

One thing I have thought about, to keep costs low, is IF I could build a 40x60, I could wall off, heat, and concrete only half of it. This would keep energy costs down, concrete cost down, and still give me plenty of dry storage for tractors as well as workshop space for the projects.

I really have no idea what it would cost, but have seen people build pretty nice things being quite thrifty.

What would you guys do, how would you change your current workshop, etc. etc. etc.? Pictures are always welcomed! (Tractors included)! I am ued to working in tight quarters, but would like a LITTLE more space than what I have now. The one thing I know for sure - We always wish we had MORE room!

$20 per square foot is possible if you do most the work yourself. Pole barn with concrete floor.

It takes a 9' high door to easily drive an M in.

I like 2x6 formwork for concrete, 5-1/2" thick with at least 4-1/2" in thin areas. Pay for 4,000 psi concrete, it finishes very well and does not cost that much more.

I'm out of space, and mine is 60x75 so build as big as you can afford.

If you"re going to line/insulate, I"d go stick built. With a pole shed you"ll still need to stud between the posts. Cold storage area is a good idea, good cost saver.

Put tubes in the floor, you will never regret it, can heat with water heater if want to.

Ken, you have the right idea about partitioning it. My shop is 40x50x17. I have an inner room in one corner which is 16x22x10. I heat it with a little wall mounted catalytic propane unit. The main building is well insulated, as is the inner room. I keep the inner room at 50 degrees all winter, and bump it up to 60 when I go in. I don't need to build a fire and wait for the temp to come up. The heat that escapes from the inner room keeps the outer at 40 degrees. I can heat the outer part with a salamander if I need to. I use 170 gal. of propane per year.

Ken,

We met at Nowthen, I work in the blacksmith shop on Friday. I was poorer than a church mouse when I built my 41 X 85 shop/barn. I'll be glad to show it to you (NW corner of Plymouth). I have built other pole barns also, and have done barn additions and restorations. I'm not trying to sell you anything, just willing to show you some features and construction details. Sorry, but I won't post pictures (which might invite unsavory types to "help themselves"). Glad to share ideas with you.

Paul in MN

I put up a 28x72 tool shed (wish it was 30x72), 24' wide work shop and three 16' bays, then added a 10x32 lean to behind the shop to store parts, lube, air compressor and any extra tools that don't see regular for less clutter in the shop. I always wanted a large shop like some of my friends but noticed their's was always full of stuff with minimum work room. I decided on a small work shop that could be heated or cooled with a decent sized window unit so I could work on stuff year round without the utility bill breaking the bank, the back storage room helps keep the clutter down, and the shed gives me room to store equipment, I can alway put doors on the bays if I want to close them in.
I do have dad's old 25x30 shop across the driveway from the shed, I plan to redo it to store my old car in.

I'm planning on building another shop in the not too distant future.It'll be all metal no wood in it.That's that is the way my neighbor's shop is and its great not to have to worry every
time we fire up the torch or welder about a spark.Think about how many people right here on YT have had wooden and wood frame buildings burn over the years,another neighbor had a wooden
machine shed burn down a few months ago with his tractor and all sorts of equipment.

Forgot to mention, it's pole barn style with 6" concrete floor in the shop, 4000 lb mix with 3/8 rebar tied on 2 ft centers, metal on the outside, 6" walls fully insulated with metal inside walls and ceiling in the shop, 12" of insulation in the ceiling, 10 1/2' H x 12' W insulated double slider shop doors, 11 1/2' ceiling(set my back post to deep). Got tired of overhead doors blocking the lights whenever they're raised.

I put up a 28x72 tool shed (wish it was 30x72), 24' wide work shop and three 16' bays, then added a 10x32 lean to behind the shop to store parts, lube, air compressor and any extra tools that don't see regular for less clutter in the shop. I always wanted a large shop like some of my friends but noticed their's was always full of stuff with minimum work room. I decided on a small work shop that could be heated or cooled with a decent sized window unit so I could work on stuff year round without the utility bill breaking the bank, the back storage room helps keep the clutter down, and the shed gives me room to store equipment, I can alway put doors on the bays if I want to close them in.
I do have dad's old 25x30 shop across the driveway from the shed, I plan to redo it to store my old car in.

(quoted from post at 19:15:07 10/25/17) If you"re going to line/insulate, I"d go stick built. With a pole shed you"ll still need to stud between the posts. Cold storage area is a good idea, good cost saver.

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Not necessarily. I have a neighbor who has a pole shed, and his is insulated very nicely with spray foam. It may not have that perfect appearance, but it's quite comfortable in there, even when it's not so nice outside. His is all open and fully paved. Mine? Mine is still in the "wishing" stage. *lol*

You are making a good point about fire safety, but a frequent fire scenario is something combustible inside the building catches fire and a steel building will warp and sag from the heat, becoming junk. A few years ago my son's storage shed had a fire in which a couple of plastic barrels full of oil, and some 5 gal buckets of herbicide concentrate caught fire (cause unknown). The fire dept worked hard to save the other nearby buildings. Due to the oil and chemicals, they had to let that one burn itself out. It made no difference whether it was wood or metal. At least the wood building ashes took up less room in the dumpster and cost less for disposal than a bunch of bent up metal. All of the metal items inside the building had to be disposed of, nothing salvageable.

Paul in MN

I built a 40 by 60 pole building, I'm glad I went with that size. I only put concrete in half of it, I put white rock in the other half. I didn't think I needed concrete just to park tractors on. I live on an acreage so there is no problem with city ordinances. If you go with the bigger size you will be glad you did!

Paul, your post reminded me of one of the first fires I responded to while in the FD. It was offices on one end and a bar on the other. All metal - no wood whatsoever. Even the office desks were metal. We couldn't save the structure as the fire was so intense. Stood there and watched the ridge beam just warp and bend and sag until it nearly touched the floor.

Even if the steel doesn't warp out of shape, it should rightly be scraped out and rebuilt from scratch, as the heat from a fire has almost certainly compromised the original strength of the metal.

Currently have a 40X70X15, one 16X10 overhead door and passage doors. Only poured concrete in the front half- it is nice to be able to park a "leaker" or "dripper" on the gravel, not the concrete. Seems to be very dusty in there, though. That may be because of the South facing door.

Builder suggested the 16 foot wide door, makes it easier to get a tractor and 9 foot mower/conditioner inside. 15 foot side walls was high enough for a car on a hoist or a loft with reasonable headroom on top and bottom. Not insulated, it is hard to keep the heat in, but comfortable to work for a while.

Next building will be only 40X60X15, all concrete. 40 feet is long enough for a pickup with snowplow pulling a 16 foot car hauler to get in and close the doors. Will have a dedicated 15X40 wash bay/sprayer fill bay. And heated floors with drains. After college tuition stops!

Anything is possible but I've heard of 100 wooden buildings burn up for every 1 all metal building in a situation you described.Which odds do you like best?
99 to 1 or 1 in a hundred? Plus an all metal building can withstand small fires in it that would burn a wooden building down.

If there wasn't anything that would burn what was on fire? You said EVERYTHING in the building was metal.

I'll second this 100%. If you're going to pour the concrete go ahead and put the tubes in. Built a 50x64 last year and framed in half for a shop with radiant heat in the floor. Best money ever spent. Feet never get cold and the heat is low where you want it not up in the ceiling.

(quoted from post at 01:51:54 10/26/17) Anything is possible but I've heard of 100 wooden buildings burn up for every 1 all metal building in a situation you described.Which odds do you like best?
99 to 1 or 1 in a hundred? Plus an all metal building can withstand small fires in it that would burn a wooden building down.

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When you become a firefighter, if you want to become certified you have to get a lot of training. One area of training is building construction. Firefighters need to know about it in order to predict how fire will travel and extend, how to proceed with attack, and what to be concerned about for firefighter safety as the time of burning continues. One of many things that has stuck with me is the difference in how long wood will last in a fire compared to steel. Believe it or not, other things being equal, STEEL CONSTRUCTION WILL COLLAPSE SOONER THAN WOOD CONSTRUCTION. The reason for this is that wood beams that hold up all wood structures will not bend due to heat, They have to burn from outside in, which regardless of temperature takes time. Steel on the other hand needs to be at a certain temp for a matter of minutes before it looses its strength. We have all watched the twin towers fall once those minutes had passed. True steel is encased in insulation, but wood is easily protected by fire rated sheetrock as well as insulation as in my building.

Ken, all I gotta say on the subject is no matter what you build, it will not be big enough!

When I moved into my place I thought the 24x40 pole building with 10' lean-to off one side was cavernous. I'd never fill it up.

Well, I just got done putting up a second ShelterLogic so I wouldn't have to stack trailers to store them for the winter anymore.

Ditto the comments on having a small area, maybe 10 x 10 that you can heat. I find that 98% of my workshop time is spent in the small area working on little stuff. Also, insulate well, that is always money well spent.

Of course if you pack any building full of flammable materials it'll go down in a fire.
Biggest problem I see with shops is the shop is used for storage for things like cases of motor oil,cans of gear grease,hydraulic oil,barrel full of empty oil cans,drain pans with oil in them,
gasoline cans setting around.None of these should be in a shop where a torch and welder is used.In the plant I worked any of those things would draw a OSHA violation for good reason.
Also I want a shop a good distance from any equipment/tractor storage building or barn.

Yes, Paul. Hope you are doing well. I have been incredibly busy here this fall since the show. As far as this [future] shop goes.. I am just trying to get all of my ducks in a row so that when we do get the house on the market in the spring - I know pretty much exactly what I want to do as soon as we get into our next place. I have talked to a few people, and most have said they planned their build for about 6 months before putting the shovel in the dirt.

I my have to take you up on a tour sometime. That is one thing I do often - drive around the neighborhoods near me and look at all of the second garages, shops, pole barns. I just wish I could knock on someones door to ask them about their shop, their build, and for a tour! Ha ha. Not very likely, though. I think the best way for me to go about doing it is to rope/stake out dimensions on the ground, and get all of my tractors parked within the rectangle to see what I have left over - play with different sized spaces. 30x40, 36x48, 40x60, etc. It's a lot cheaper to move string and stakes than it is to knock out a wall and extend a building.

I know, I know... ALWAYS go bigger than what you think you will need... Especially in this hobby! :-D

I sure do appreciate everyone's responses! I am leaning towards a pole barn at this point, with an area within that is heated. If I went larger, I would wall off half so that I could have a nice work area with solid floors. I do know that if I wanted to heat it, I would have to frame it in. This could be done progressively over time. The main thing would be to get a building up, with some solid flooring in part of it.

The problem I see with having a small space walled off that can be heated, is that USUALLY it is a tractor that needs attention when it is cold outside. A tractor will not fit in a 10x10 area and still allow space for the work that might need done, and if the tractor is equipped with a loader and snow bucket, well, you get the picture.

If you need a small workshop for mostly tinkering, maybe a man-cave in the basement would be better?

I can tell you right now 40x60 is not enough room for tractor storage

As far as fire concerns I'd recommend two buildings, a small well insulated work shop and a second larger storage building.
Should you have a fire in one building you don't lose everything.

My brother in law lost 26 classic muscle cars when his 80x200 shop burnt (old car dealership). Most of the cars where being stored in the building but he also ran a small restoration business in the front half.
A arsonist broke in one night and set his Durango on fire which was parked under a wood framed loft. Although the building had block walls and steel trusses, the roof was wood decked with tar coating plus the wood loft.
I was there with my fire dept along with 4 other dept's when the building flashed and blew the end wall out, 5 minutes later the entire building collapsed.
He lost everything, 63 Dodge Max Wedge, 71 6pk Challenger, GTX, GTO, several others, spare parts, all of his tools, everything.
Not much was insured and a number of them were non replaceable.

I was thinking a smaller space that was heated to do my tractor wrenching. The cold storage would be for already running or waiting projects. A lot of the small items I take in the house with me anyhow - carburetors, magnetos, etc... But it is hard to convince my fiance to let me bring a tractor up the stairs..

I'm not a farmer, so mostly my tractors are for hobby only. I do intend on using my IH M to plow in the winter at the next house.. But other than that, it is mostly something for me to spend money I don't have on projects I don't need. :-D

Anyhow.. Most likely, I am looking in the 30x40 to 36 x 48 range. Around here, only a certain percentage of your property can be covered by structures, and depending on the size of the plot, you are limited to allowable square footage on secondary structures as well.

I started with a 30x50, it is now a 70x65 and it is full. Just built another 20x24 to be able to clean out the big barn so that I could walk through it. Never enough space.
I do have a 15x15 insulated portion that has a work bench and a table so that I can work on things indoors when I need to.

Think about if you want your shop inside a cold storage shed, or a shop separate from the larger shed? Both methods work. Pole barn builders have websites where you can plug in your requirements and get ballpark estimates for some of the costs. Be sitting down when you read the costs. It will be less expensive to buy an acreage with a building already in place than to build new, property taxes should be somewhat lower too.

In cold climates, floor heat is great if you will be working in the shop every day. Not so much for occasional use because of the large thermal mass in the floor that needs to be heated. It can take a boiler one or two days to get the slab up to temperature - think heating a swimming pool.

Did you ever get the F-20 to idle smoothly?

In "82 I built a 48x48 pole shed, 14 foot sidewalls, with a 16x24 tool room that had a 10 foot ceiling, lined, insulated, heated. 10 foot door so I could get even a cab tractor in. Cold area had a 24 foot sliding door, enough to get the combine in. Later lined and insulated another 24x24 space in the building. That area has the steel rack, and the HM pivoting hoist, with the HM shop press mounted on it. In "98 I added a 48x48 open front shed for cold storage, so the entire building is 48x96. The tool room has shelving floor to ceiling, as well as the 24x24 area, except where the sliding doors are. Plenty of storage space, and most of it full.

We built a 40 by 80 14 foot walls. We built a wall so we have 32 by 40 work shop. We insulated and concreted the work shop. Easy to heat with a propane heater and big enough to work on multiple projects and the 30 foot trailer. If we were doing it again I would seriously consider concreting the entire floor. It is 5 to 5 1/2 inches deep. Only 4 inches around the walls. Since this is a pole barn every thing is run behind the wall board. We would have sprayed the entire building with 1 or 2 inches of closed cell foam before doing any other inside construction if doing it now. We have been very satisfied with this building. The work area has a 10 wide by 12 high insulated door. The storage area has a 20 foot wide by 12 foot high sliding door and a 10 foot wide by 12 high roll up door. If We were doing it again We would make the 20 foot door roll up. I would not give up any of the doors. The shop has 2 Windows and a man door. The storage area also has a man door. The back side wall has translucent panels the top 2 feet.

I haven't had much time to work on it lately with my mother passing. I know it will probably need the governor torn apart - and now that I have an air compressor I would like to take the carb off again, soak it, and give it a good blow out. I also picked up some welding torch tip cleaning files so that I can get into the narrow passages with them to help poke them clean in case there are any particles lodged in them.

Also need to get a set of rear tires for it yet as well... Ahh, projects, projects, projects.

An aspect that's often overlooked by DIYers is site preparation. If your building site isn't properly graded, there's nothing you can do AFTER the building is up. Make sure you have good drainage in all four directions, and that you have a gentle approach to the main door. Any fill you bring in needs to be well-packed before you pour concrete.

My building is 30x40x10, and yes it's full. But it's a very practical size and reasonably easy to heat. The size was dictated by my building site and budget; I don't regret not building it bigger, although I might well end up putting up another building in the future. The bigger the building, the harder it will be to erect it yourself. You and three or four buddies can easily hang 30 foot trusses; 40 or 50 foot trusses are tough.

I have no regrets going post frame versus stick. Other than setting the posts and hanging the trusses, I did almost all the work myself.

I put in a large floor drain, and haven't used it. I'd rather have a flat floor, but that might change if I heat the building and start parking wet vehicles in it.

My 30 foot trusses have a small attic space in them. I put a floor in this area and installed an attic stair; I store stuff up there I don't expect to need anytime soon.

My floor, reinforced with wire mesh, is 4 inches thick around the building perimeter and 6 inches thick in the middle and at the entrance. Thicker concrete is less prone to cracking and requires fewer control joints. I have NO cracks in my floor. I insulated the floor and installed PEX tubing for heat; maybe if I ever finish insulating it I'll get the heat working.

Boy, this is true. When I was on the local VFD I saw a couple of fires where people lost everything due to either having everything in one building or having various structures too close together.

(quoted from post at 06:49:40 10/26/17) I can tell you right now 40x60 is not enough room for tractor storage

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Original plans for my shop were 36'x40'. The 36' width was because 40' physically would not fit. I quicklt realized that 40' length would not be enough, so I added another 20' for a total of 36'x60'x10'. At one time I had 5 tractors + 2 trucks in there. NO room left to actually take a tractor apart. Last summer I put up an open front pole shed just for storage. Now there is just ONE tractor and 2 trucks in the shop. Plenty of room now to work on whatever needs it.

No such thing as "too big" when it comes to pole buildings.
Lots of good advice here.