Next door neighbor selling out

It is seems strange having my dad tell me our neighbors have just put there farms up for sale, couldn't believe him for a bit. Well run dairy, cleanest tractors and equipment in the area. Don't know what my neighbor is going to do, he is my age 35. His dad never really taught him any thing, one of those who had every thing done for them. His parents are keeping the house they live in and the other farms one that their son lives in is going with the farm.

brown swiss reading your post my first reaction is that's just sad, did he have no interest in working with his dad? did his dad not want him working on the farm? did he not want to learn? it sounds like he's not in any way ready to step out on his own and make a living, I think one of the prime responabilitys of any parent is to make sure your children are taught how to work, that they are at least taught the basics on how to cope in the world, basic life skills, managing money, how to cook and feed themselves, wether your working as an employee or working for yourself (farming) you need those basic life skills. in this case it's hard to make any judgement without knowing the whole story but I don't envy your friend or the road ahead of him.

It sounds like there is not a succession plan happening at your neighbor's. Low milk prices bring things to a financial head real fast. One of the better dairies around me sold out about a year ago. The owner flat our told me he could not make enough money to be worth the effort. So he sold out all the equipment and cattle. His land rent is twice what he made the last few years he milked.

First off if someone is 35 years old and hasn't learned a trade,a profession or something they can use to make a living its their own fault not their parents fault.As far as what the farm looks like don't be fooled.I went to a bankruptcy farm auction real big expensive nice house,long board fence lined driveway,about 2 acres grass cut real neat with an Exmark
Zero turn mower,lot of good looking late model tractors and equipment.To me they were all signs of a poorly financially managed farm that poured money into things that gave no return or
not nearly enough return for the cost.Not always the case but the old saying "You can't judge a book by its cover" is never more true than looking at farms.Then again maybe these people are just tired of dealing with a lazy kid that does nothing for himself.Who knows.

I wish him all the best. I'm sure it was a difficult decision, but why keep losing money in a farm that can't make money? There comes a time to stop the bleeding. Small to midsized dairy farming is all but dead around here.

There have been comments to the effect that the son was not ready or capable to take over. While anything is possible what happens all too often is the problem rests with dad. Dad only wants to relinquish a minimal amount of power or assets. Going further dad wants things run just like when he was a young man even though there are better and/or more profitable ways to do things today. Dad won't step back and is losing his ability to run equipment so dad runs the tractor using the clutch and brake pedals as foot rests. Tractor is soon at dealer's shop with big repair bill waiting. Just because dad developed gray hair does not mean he was the best manager the farm could have. At Cornell I received a big earful as to not judging by what we see on the surface when looking at a farm business. The equipment and buildings could be clean and nice but that does not mean a train wreck was not decades in the making in terms of management. I see examples right in the area. A son is doing heavy labor at age 65 away from the farm while dad is home running the field cultivator on flat tires and driving like he just went through a couple cases of cheap beer. A 100 foot section of road has serious damage from a chisel plow when dad forgot to raise it to head back to the house. In this example dad was not even 70 years of age and he never let the boys run tractor so the blame lays with only one person.

Probably farming is all the kid knows, and some version of him not taking responsibility and or dad not allowing him any responsibility has him
mid 30s with no outside skills and the current Ag economy has made smaller sized dairying very tough, high bills and low prices the negative
numbers add up fast month by month.

Sometimes progress doesn't feel very progressive.

Dairy is following poultry and hog models, with vertical integration you either get really big and cheap labor, or you get big and special labeling.

Paul

Dairy is a tough industry. Back when corn was expensive, many (most?) small dairies switched to other operations: grain; beef; or cash rent.

Was the dad a youngest child? Some people who were always around adults and older children when they were growing up may never have had much opportunity to learn how to teach or coach others.

I can tell you for sure I have seen way more financial problems caused by the 'new and improved' way of doing things by the younger generation than problems caused by the old guy that owned the farm.The Kid finds it pretty easy to spend dad's money that the old fellow saved the hard way or to go into debt to buy equipment that the farm size and income wasn't able to support.
Then its all downhill from there.My dad's advice saved me.I was fresh out of school got a good paying job and helping dad on the farm and I owned some livestock in the operation too.It was just when the 'Fence row to fence row' stuff came out prices went high and I was all set to borrow money and go into big time farming, dad shot that down right quick told me I'd be a fool to jump in and he was right.I kept working the job saved a good amount of money,still farmed with dad and by the time the early 80's rolled around I was able to buy some bargain basement equipment
at sales of those that didn't have as smart of a dad or didn't listen.Set us up big time to really improve our farming operation.Yea in his later years my dad tore up some things and all but
I can tell you it was a small thing compared to the help and good advice I got from him over the years.

I don't know what that does to your morale,but when the last of the close neighbors quit,I was ready to throw in the towel too. It felt like a pretty lonely place to be farming all of a sudden.

As others noted, there could be numerous explanations as to what is going on there. I remember doing business with a man, who was about my father's age. He was a high roller BTO. The scary part of doing business with him, was his rather shady tactics, and he was extremely shrewd. Back in the 1980's farm crisis, he managed to create several entities in which he was able to shift the ownership of his land over to, in order to preserve it, while going through bankruptcy. He was a rather aggressive empire builder. I know there were some agricultural businesses he worked with who were taken for a ride, along with financial institutions. He managed to build quite an empire, but what was the cost to build it? How many others took it in the shorts? What was his local reputation afterwards? What impacts did these dealing have upon his physical health?

Other situations I know of. Existing farms with sons who are/were actively farming. Siblings saw the DOLLARS. Want to cash out while the getting seems rather good right now. Parents maybe didn't save very well for retirement and selling the farm is their way to live a more comfortable retirement. Those I know in dairy, well, it seems as though it is either feast or famine, and being "married" to those cows is more commitment than it is worth. Some people have been told by their bankers to either get bigger or get out. Some people in family partnerships get squeezed out by a sibling or spouse of as sibling. Family struggles and the dynamics that can go with it.

I know I have had my own struggles in my attempts to get into farming. My father was not aggressive in his expansion attempts, and got rather cautious about borrowing money. He found it easier and less stressful to obtain seasonal off farm income, versus getting deeper and bigger into livestock. I had it pounded into my head that farming had no future for years. I kept coming back in whatever way that I could to help out. When my dad turned 65, he finally conceded and realized my love for the farm, and rented it to me. I still have my off farm job, which is a good paying job, so I can at least invest most of what the farm produces back into it. It isn't what I had envisioned doing as a kid, but I guess I have to have faith in that I am doing what was meant to be. I am where I was meant to be. And full time farming was never meant to be. In the end, I am fairly satisfied, and I hope that I can possibly do some things as far as expanding the farming operation, ultimately retire sometime between 55 and 60 when I have my mortgage paid off, and my kids through college, to go back and do what I had always wanted to do, when the financial needs for me and my family are less than they are today.

46 years ago, at age 21, I walked away from a highy successful cattle/wheat operation in Kansas. In those days my Dad and Grandfather were considered BTOs, although successful operations have grown considerably since then. I suspect that had I stayed I could have grown that operation, too.

Now I enjoy old tractors and machinery for nostalgic purposes and every couple of years it is fun to watch a group of old guys belt up a steamer and demonstrate threshing, but overall walking away was the best decision I ever made. Just yesterday I drove out to where I grew up for a funeral and the stench from the feedlots was overpowering. I patted myself on the back all the way back to Wichita.

Point is that we cannot tell what is going on by looking at the outside clues. I wish the son and the parents well.

Hard to say until you know for sure. A sale bill popped up for one here a few weeks ago. The sale's in two weeks. That one says "Due to dissolving our marital partnership". When I went by there Monday,there was a big travel trailer parked by the house with a cord plugged in to it. One of them must be living in it.

I'd have thought the cows would have been gone by now,but they were still there. Must be taking it right down to the last minute.

We all see what we see and if in your case the problem resided with the son then so be it. Around here I have not hardly scratched the surface in terms of the problem residing with dad. The MO around here is that dad once grandpa is gone is the unchallenged head of the family and is accordingly arrogant and unwilling to change. Mom and the kids make the best of it by throwing in their best effort to mask the problem and preserve "family honor." Mom works off the farm and one kid gets a job with the township to bring money in. Dad continues running the place like it is 1965 complete with 36" row plate planter. I don't know anybody personally here so I am not making any comment about anybody here.

Well no one is forcing the kid to stay into the operation if its not to his benefit to stay then he needs to leave and strike out on his own and make a living by himself.

[i:654c4848f0] Existing farms with sons who are/were actively farming. Siblings saw the DOLLARS. Want to cash out while the getting seems rather good right now. Parents maybe didn't save very well for retirement and selling the farm is their way to live a more comfortable retirement. Those I know in dairy, well, it seems as though it is either feast or famine, and being "married" to those cows is more commitment than it is worth. Some people have been told by their bankers to either get bigger or get out. Some people in family partnerships get squeezed out by a sibling or spouse of as sibling. Family struggles and the dynamics that can go with it. [/i:654c4848f0]

Never happened to me personally, but this song hits me hard for some reason
Corb Lund

You are right and at the same time life is far from being that simple. Around here the economy has been in a coma for decades so there may not be a better alternative for some kids. Some kids have the brains and the looks to become CEO of a company and others may have the brains but look like 10 miles of bad road due to genetics so they never get past an interview beyond being the shelf stocker at the local grocery. Some kids stay to be a buffer as dad can be physically abusive towards mom. Like I said I don't know anybody personally here so don't take any comment as a personal dig.

You might have just pointed out the problem,if the kid is only qualified to stock groceries then that's the job for him but on the other hand he's hardly qualified to run a farming operation.And there are a whole lot of jobs between being a CEO and stocking groceries.Mom needs to make her own choices not use the kids a crutch too.

You can't tell by looking from the outside.

When I was in high school, I worked summers for our next door neighbor 'cause my dad didn't really need me on our farm. A few years later when the neighbor was in his early '30s, he walked away from a successful farming operation, went back to school to become a mortician, and went on to become a partner in a highly successful funeral home.

Just depends on where your interests really are and having the courage to follow them.

That is not what I said. I said the kid at the grocery store had brains but due to personal appearance that he can not control he will not be considered for a high position. I hate to go there but how many short, fat, and ugly people do you know that have gone far in a business that they personally did not control? I know some will answer that go become something where looks are unimportant. Easy to do in a healthy economy that has needs for machinists and auto technicians for starters. Not so easy when the economy has been stagnant. Go to another community? Yes, it certainly happens but then you are just a name on an application so your chances do not automatically improve. I would also like to throw out that for some family is more important than money so there is that as well. May not be your priority but who is to question somebody who does make family a priority?

I would have to agree! Thanks for sharing.

There are a lot of dynamics and forces at play in rural farming areas. One could probably write a book just trying to capture as many as possible. At least I experienced my childhood during the time when neighbors were neighbors. We could work together at any one of the nearby farms on some endeavor. Those endeavors could be shelling corn, filling silo, building a grain bin, baling hay. We got along. We would turn these neighborhood endeavors into a large group feed at the end of the day. We could have neighborhood get together events during the year. Be borrowed equipment from one another, and it always would come back in at least as good condition as compared to when it left the place. We were invited to weddings and graduations, and we all turned out to show support for funerals of our respective family members who died. Corporate banking and the decisions made as to who was too big to fail (in many occasions on more than one occasion) was rather divisive in the neighborhood, especially when the one who "was forgiven" showed up at church one day with a brand new Cadillac, Lincoln, or at least Buick. The following spring, a new lineup of farm equipment was out on the landscape. Competition for land resources drastically intensified. Outside money started pouring into the area buying up land tracts for sale. Long time neighbors and friends got into feuds over land tracts. The scattering of confinement swine barns throughout the countryside brought about more contempt from those who opted not to adapt to this sort of change. Those family farms remaining in ownership by the children, who are out looking for a consistent payment of rent made the economics of farming even more dismal, as BTO's and other corporate entities were and remain willing to rent a farm and receive razor thin margins in order to spread out costs over a larger land base, while I find more of them are making the gamble they can file bankruptcy again and again. The neighborhoods and those who remain on the landscape today know who these people are, but grow more and more powerless to counter what is considered "progress." Farming is not for the faint or weak at heart..........................or for those who are of meager means!

Darn you Bob. You managed to bring tears to my eyes for telling a 'Truth' that few 'leaders' see.

Yep,it was never my intention to outlast everybody and farm the whole neighborhood. I still don't farm it all,but in most cases the guys working across the fence aren't neighnors,they're unknown employees of somebody who lives a long ways away.

It was never supposed to be like this. I'd sooner be walking behind a mule on a 40 acre farm and know the neighbor who's walking behind his in the next field. It's a lonely life anymore.

Fella down the road wanted to farm the family farm, got his own business but really was a farmer at heart. Lived there all his life.

His dad would not let go, kept farming until he was 86. Then his mom wouldn't let go of it either, she sat in a nursing home renting it out for another couple years.

Fella finally got to farm 'his' farm when he was 63 years old. (His son would like to live on the farm, he's in his 40s with three kids...)

Happens way often around here, dad hangs on too long, and is looking to slow down and cash in retire. But used the kid for slave labor with promises of getting the farm.

After winding it down and sucking it dry before letting the kid actually do anything.

Every situation is different, but see that a lot around here, dad promises things but then wont let go for 'one more year'.

Paul

I heard some of the big guys have put bids in already, I don't know who will get it but having a change in neighbors feels stressful for some reason. Mostly knowing it is not going to be just a small dairy anymore, maybe what depresses me the most!

If he can make it farming he can probably make it double doing most anything else.

Unless someone has lived during this type of incident, they have no comment.

(quoted from post at 10:38:21 04/12/18) Fella down the road wanted to farm the family farm, got his own business but really was a farmer at heart. Lived there all his life.

His dad would not let go, kept farming until he was 86. Then his mom wouldn't let go of it either, she sat in a nursing home renting it out for another couple years.

Fella finally got to farm 'his' farm when he was 63 years old. (His son would like to live on the farm, he's in his 40s with three kids...)

Happens way often around here, dad hangs on too long, and is looking to slow down and cash in retire. But used the kid for slave labor with promises of getting the farm.

After winding it down and sucking it dry before letting the kid actually do anything.

Every situation is different, but see that a lot around here, dad promises things but then wont let go for 'one more year'.

Paul

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Paul gotta agree 100%. Plus you got other greedy fingers in the pie too. My BIL has been told by an estate planner that trying to be fair to all the kids isn't going to allow the only one who stayed on the farm to continue farming. I'm trying to make him understand that he really shouldn't care what the other kids think. Each had the opportunity to stay and work hard. And they ain't going to love him any different once he's dead. It's working, he started signing stuff over as of 1 Jan this year. But the only way the nephew can stay and farm is if he has the whole thing without a lot of cash rent to pay to siblings.

Rick

Fella finally got to farm 'his' farm when he was 63 years old. (His son would like to live on the farm, he's in his 40s with three kids...)
Paul

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Paul, do we know each other? You virtually posted my life's story. Since we have been part-time farmers for three generations, we don't count as real farmers, and I'm okay with that. As the grandson, I was the one who bristled at the 1940's technology/methods I grew up using, not my Dad. Grandpa was well heeled from his off-farm job, but VERY frugal. And, from the old-school where neighbors helped each other and split up expensive tools- he owned the corn planter, Erv owned the corn picker, Doc had the front-end loader, Al had the grain drill...

I was fortunate that Dad saw I was the one who should move onto the farm and remodel the house, not he and Mom in their 60's. He basically bypassed his own inheritance to give it to me. True, he was here more than I was, and I was the one footing all the bills, so maybe he had the better end of the deal after all. He spent his days overseeing the remodel, playing with my little kids, and keeping the farm moving. I worked my day job and then came home to work. I could never thank him enough.

My sister, who lives near D.C., is thrilled to come here to visit, happy that I am keeping the farm in the family, and has no desire to break up the farm to cash out. I guess I am the lucky one with so many great family members. Or, I'm such an a-hole that they just get out of my way. (I'm leaning toward the latter).

Fella finally got to farm 'his' farm when he was 63 years old. (His son would like to live on the farm, he's in his 40s with three kids...)
Paul

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Paul, do we know each other? You virtually posted my life's story. Since we have been part-time farmers for three generations, we don't count as real farmers, and I'm okay with that. As the grandson, I was the one who bristled at the 1940's technology/methods I grew up using, not my Dad. Grandpa was well heeled from his off-farm job, but VERY frugal. And, from the old-school where neighbors helped each other and split up expensive tools- he owned the corn planter, Erv owned the corn picker, Doc had the front-end loader, Al had the grain drill...

I was fortunate that Dad saw I was the one who should move onto the farm and remodel the house, not he and Mom in their 60's. He basically bypassed his own inheritance to give it to me. True, he was here more than I was, and I was the one footing all the bills, so maybe he had the better end of the deal after all. He spent his days overseeing the remodel, playing with my little kids, and keeping the farm moving. I worked my day job and then came home to work. I could never thank him enough.

My sister, who lives near D.C., is thrilled to come here to visit, happy that I am keeping the farm in the family, and has no desire to break up the farm to cash out. I guess I am the lucky one with so many great family members. Or, I'm such an a-hole that they just get out of my way. (I'm leaning toward the latter).

Sorry for the double post. Got lost in the ether...

(quoted from post at 09:30:10 04/12/18) We all see what we see and if in your case the problem resided with the son then so be it. Around here I have not hardly scratched the surface in terms of the problem residing with dad. The MO around here is that dad once grandpa is gone is the unchallenged head of the family and is accordingly arrogant and unwilling to change. Mom and the kids make the best of it by throwing in their best effort to mask the problem and preserve "family honor." Mom works off the farm and one kid gets a job with the township to bring money in. Dad continues running the place like it is 1965 complete with 36" row plate planter. I don't know anybody personally here so I am not making any comment about anybody here.

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You make a lot of sense and hit the nail on the head as far as my situation goes. Someone else did as well and I apologize for not having the poster's name handy, but part of my deision rested with the fact that I have two sisters who would have eventually tried to push me into liquidation so they could take their share as cash.