Lucky to survive-wreck

This message is a reply to an archived post by FastFarmall on August 26, 2019 at 10:41:05.
The original subject was "Re: Lucky to survivewreck".

Gentlemen,My name is Donnie Hebenthal Jr and I am the owner of all of this mess and the driver in this accident. Just want to set a few things straight,my father had originally posted all this without my knowledge.This is the very reason I don't do much social media-the rest of the world always seems to know more than the individuals involved!
For the facts,The trailer was a 2014 17,000 lb Moritz with electric over hydraulic brakes.
The truck was a GMC 3500 Duramax with Allison with a 30,000lb B&W gooseneck hitch.7800 lb

Trailer curb weight 6400 lb
Tractor 8700 lb
4 wheeler 650 lb
1 safety chain stayed intact on OEM equipment.

Truck was legally combination licensed at 26,000 lb,and yes I do hold a Class A CDL and medical card.

Chains were 3/8 grade 70 transport chains with 1/2 to 3/8 Crosby grade 70 transport hooks on them

Total of 4 chains with 4 DOT approved ratchet binders plus 2 more 2 inch dot rachet straps side to side from tractor frame to trailer.

These vehicles took 3 separate hits
First being the mini van that hit us at a 45 degree coming from opposite direction.
Second being the truck hitting a 45 degree inbankment.Which I had swerved toward to avoid any other motorist(Just like DOT manual states should be done.
And 3rd the trailer over turning on the bank.
Furthermore Police,dot,fireman and ems ALL commended me on the job well done both with proper chains being used and my quick actions to avoid any further vehicles being involved in this accident.

NO! I was not cited for any violation in this accident.

Finally,for all you professional truck drivers-they also stated that the way the load was secured and hardware used was better than most professional carriers use on a daily bases that they encounter.

If not for my actions the lady that was responsible for the accident, my father and myself would not have lived through this.

As far as insurance:yes the tractor was supposed to be insured,they took my money for it but no they did not cover it.I now have an insurance policy with a reputable motorsport co.

Have a nice day😀
Donnie Hebenthal, Mechanically Inclined
LPS Tractor.

Herb, I looked back, here was my response to one of those who condemned you "Mr. Ozlander, at first glance one could think that you state the obvious, so why bother to state it? but a quick thought says that wait a minute, Mr. Hebenthal stated that his tractors and trailer WERE properly secured. This would have been closely checked of course by the investigating DOT, so it must be true. So Mr. Ozlander, you are stating that the FMCSA load securement specifications are incorrect. Are you going to supply the USDOT with correct specifications?"

That was a heck of a mess, glad it sounds like everyone was ok in the end.

Looks like the roll cage they require is indeed well designed, it seems about the only in tact thing left!

Paul

Oh my, guess I missed the original post. Glad everyone walked away, and sorry about the truck, tractor and equipment, but that can be replaced.

So there is a dot reg that suggests swerving out of your lane? Can't say I've seen that one, and it would be against company policy at any company I've worked for. But if the dot says it's proper I'll bring it up at the next safety meeting.

Makes you sick to see it !

I did not see the original post or whatever but this is a great example on why a lot of stuff unless it involves you personally should not be posted out for the world to see. ITS NOT YOURS to post and then throw in some armchair wizards to add their expertise. And STILL some one has the nerve to insult this poor fella again by judging his driving. I will say this if someone is coming at you and you have somewhere to go safe ie ditch ,median or whatever and you just sit in you lane and wait for the crash your the idiot. I have pounded lots of miles and more that once had to take evasive action.

The cargo securement standards are to ensure that loads do not shift or come loose during normal driving which does include emergency maneuvers like hitting the brakes and swerving. In the forward direction the securement must be rated for at least a .8 G load with the side and rearward being .5 G, both of which are reasonable for what a truck can physically do during emergency maneuvers. However, during an accident the deceleration can easily be in the 20+ G range which means that even a small 5000 lb load could be generating 100,000 lb of force against its restraints. From a practical standpoint there is simply no way to secure something with the mass of a tractor well enough to guarantee that it will never come off the truck or trailer during any kind of crash - the physics just don't allow it. The rules are there to prevent shifting or lost cargo from causing an accident in the first place but once an accident is already taking place there will be a limit as to what the securement can withstand.

DOT rules say you must secure for .8g or 80% in the forward motion.
80% of 8700 lbs is 6960
Dot rules also state that if a chain goes from the tractor to the trailer the WLL is reduced to 50%
3/8 grade 70 chain are good for 6600 lbs total and at 50% 3300 lbs
Two chains brings the total hold down power to 6600 lbs
So he had 6600 lbs of chain to hold 6960 lbs of tractor in a sudden snatch situation.
HUUMMMMMM.

Totally agree CDN 400

We are taught by our safety department that their main job is to reconstruct wrecks and study the effects of in every situation that there is only one thing you should swerve for. It is big; yellow; and has flashing red lights on the front and back with little stop signs on the driver side. Everything else you hold your own and run over anything in your way.

Nice job telling barney where he can shove his ytdot department. ❤️ ❤️

This should give the know it alls something to do this weekend. I see there are already a couple "experts" here lecturing. I ave to assume you have no one that will listen to you at home, so you try to sound smart on the internet.

That was almost exactly how it's been taught to me.

I have to wonder if most of the time it would be better to hit vehicles square, head on like the offending mini van .
I assume the driver of the mini van is holding you responsible ?

Mech Inclined -- Hello, and welcome to YT.

I was one of the ones who replied to the original post. I also am one who believes that your tractor should have been chained down better than it was. Was it legal? I would [b:fd4e88ff72]guess[/b:fd4e88ff72] so.

See, even when working construction in my youth, I took an approach very closely to that of Canadian contractor Mike Holmes, that building to code is not good enough. Code means "Minimum Acceptable". That's [i:fd4e88ff72]my[/i:fd4e88ff72] views of load-restraining regs. There is no possible way to plan for every possible scenario, but I try to think of every worst-case-scenario I may encounter, then go about trying to prevent those scenarios from happening. Do I go overboard? HA! Yes, I most certainly do!

As written in the thread that you mentioned, we were in an accident a few years before yours. Our trailer rolled, even though the tow vehicle did not. Tremendous forces were put on not only the trailer and tow vehicle, but also the load and every inch of chain/strap/rope/twine/duct tape/string/chewing gum that we had securing the load. Again, this was a newer 14,000 GVW PJ trailer, with less-than-rated load (about 3,000 lbs. less) that included a small tractor, 6-foot Howse rotary mower, and a lot of lumber and sheet goods. Even had a few 4x8x16 concrete blocks and cinder blocks! In the end, almost nothing moved on that load. Every chain and strap was trashed, as there was no way to know how much they had been stressed during the accident, even if they still looked brand new. What failed in our case was the trailer hitch. The hitch was literally ripped from the trailer and remained dangling from the back of the truck.

I spent nearly two days tying down that load. .....JUST tying down the load!! Yes, I go far, far beyond what most people would even consider "sane". In our instance, it was certainly a good thing.

Now to answer the question......why? Why in the world would I spend so much time securing a load that is simply going to sit on the trailer from point A to point B? For one, that's the kind of luck we have. I was raised to hope for the best, but to plan for the worst. It's kind of an OCD thing with me now. Still, in "MY" personal (and useless) opinion, if a tractor leaves the trailer during an accident, and the trailer is not virtually in rags, then the tractor was not secured properly. I'm a responsible person, and when I haul a load, I understand that it is ME who is bringing this load onto a public roadway; that it is ME who is securing the load; ME who has to ensure that tow vehicle and trailer are in excellent condition, etc. I also realize that if I overlook even one thing, that it would be MY oversight that might cost someone else their life.

We were fortunate that nobody else was involved in our accident, and we are also fortunate that we were able to walk away.....although the wife still has pains from the stresses she endured.

In your instance, do I see that you did anything wrong? Well, yes....the tractor left the trailer and the trailer isn't in shambles. Did you follow DOT regs? I don't know. I wasn't there. Still, in my (still useless) opinion, DOT regs are Minimum Acceptable.

......Let me throw another point-of-view into this mess. I can't count the number of times I've pulled in to get gas and seen someone filling their tank while smoking. In many instances they still have their engine running as well. I have tired of fighting with these people because of their carelessness and disrespect. They don't respect law, and they certainly do not respect the lives/safety of others around them. If they did, then they would not take such chances with the lives of others. And it's that point of view that I try to get across. Unfortunately it seems I usually fail.

I am not/have not/will not say you were wrong to follow DOT regs. I don't say you were wrong to not go a bit overboard in securing your load. I'm simply "trying" to state that, in my (yes, still useless) opinion, you could have done more.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE use your accident as a learning opportunity! And try to remember that when taking any trip over a public road, you are initializing events that could involve the lives/safety/welfare of others. It's YOUR responsibility, just as it's their responsibility for getting on the road and being out there with you. However, you cannot do anything about other people (ie; smoking at gas pump). I have tried to use our experience to teach others. Seems most people don't wanna listen. Most people don't wanna follow speed laws. Most people don't wanna think about anything; just do it, and have fun and/or make money if at all possible.

My best to you - may you have safe travels. I wish that you never have another close call. But I also wish you to [i:fd4e88ff72]expect[/i:fd4e88ff72] that you will, and to imagine what would happen if a small car broadsided your trailer, causing your chains to fail, then the tractor lands on the car and kills someone. Just consider that as a possibility please. What you do after that is up to you -- it's [i:fd4e88ff72]your[/i:fd4e88ff72] responsibility.

Here's the hitch from my trailer. Looking back, I never should have gotten that heavy of a trailer that has bumper hitch. That was [i:fd4e88ff72]my[/i:fd4e88ff72] fault. It obviously was the weak link in our instance.

You know what they say about opinions and the terminus of the digestive system.

I think everyone is taught that.
Statistics do not lie.
I would say the number 1 cause of a roll over is evasive actions and leaving the roadway.
And this wreck just adds to that statistic.

(quoted from post at 13:31:11 09/18/20) Nice job telling barney where he can shove his ytdot department. ❤️ ❤️

Click to expand...

This is absolutely correct! I love to read the YTDot threads solely for laughing at the grumpy people who can onnly find a bit of joy by tearing others down. The advice dispensed in those threads is generally wrong anyway.

As to any rule that "requires" a load to remain chained to a trailer through a wreck, that would be stupid. You might as well tell Air Bus they have to design an airplane that gets through any crash without injury to passengers or crew. Sometimes the physics is going to win no matter what rules you have.

I agree

Heck, I'm impressed you were able to post pictures with your first post!
Glad you're ok though.

There is evasive action and there is heading for the ditch . Two different tactics .

Well at least the 4 wheeler stayed on the trailer.

Yep I know about opinions and the other opening. It matters not though, someone will post next week about securing their load and we will be lectured again about enough is not enough, you gotta do more than enough. We need to consider the groceries in the back of our cars, they should be secured also, a frozen 14lb turkey flying from the back seat toward the back of your head at 60 mph, a can of soda, it all needs to be secured. secure your load. gobble

Ithought there was mention of four (4) chains.

Bunch of idiots

Could’ve had 6 half inch grade 120 chains barney would still find something wrong

You don't believe his tractor was chained down secure? Did you read his very detailed specs, description, and
methods. Law enforcement at scene said it was much more than adequate. Someone on this site can post a picture of a 9n held down with a ratchet strap that would not hold a push
mower and the only description he has is "Well it never moved" and you don't say a word.

Does having a CDL even apply here, is this a commercial vehicle? Are fed DOT regulations applicable too, do they have authority to regulate you? I thought you had to be engaged in interstate commerce for DOT/FMCSA regs to apply, key words (interstate commerce). Maybe PennDOT is who is referenced as DOT idk, seems like state regulations apply here for the info provided.

Keep in mind regulations on securement are only the minimums, we can all do better than that right?

(quoted from post at 20:52:52 09/18/20) Did you read his very detailed specs, description, and methods.

Click to expand...

Yes, I read his post thoroughly. I also went back and re-read the initial posting. ....How closely did you read my post?!?!? I never said that his tractor was not secure.

As for the comments about the 9n, you'll have to provide a link so I can know what the heck you're talking about.

You know who you are

He said he had 4 chains plus 2 2 inch straps from tractor to trailer on each side. So that should have covered that extra 900 pounds you are trying to complain about John. And of course we don't always have the exact weight of things when we load them so we give them our best thought on that.
As for KCM if you want to get anything done in a reasonable amount of time you just can't take 2 days to tie something down on a trailer. And yes I was a motor carrier for 15 years with my name on all the papers that went with that. Insurance,plates, truck title,fuel tax,authority, and all. You can't haul enough on the truck for every need. I was once asked about not having something on the truck. I told them to have everything I needed for every particular load. I would need another truck to haul it all around with me. They were not sure how to think about that. I used to carry 18 20ft chains and binders, some ratchet and some snap (over center)plus about 12- 4 inch straps , a few 2 inch straps, and then some 10 foot chains. So how much is enough all but 2 chains were 3/8 the other 2 were 5/16 I used them for holding the boom on backhoes from swinging sideways. Some of the loads I put on were needing all those chains and binders. With 6 tractors on a load no, I didn't have only 2 chains on each and never was given a problem with DOT when inspected and There was not room for one to fall off as they were shoe horned on together. Also if you look antique tractors only require 2 chains per tractor if under 10,000 pounds. Also other items only require 2 chains if under 10,000 and shorter than 10 ft. If it has to stay on the trailer no matter what you would need to wrap the chains around from one end to the other. There are reasonable tolerances to things in life and certain risks to things also. I think he had things under control till he was put into a situation that exceeded the reasonable conditions of any load. Once hit those chains could have been stressed and even maybe damaged to a level that reduced their holding ability. Something that can not be planned for. Like the strap rubrail law that was reversed after the reconsideration that few accidents caused damage to the straps attached to the rubrail. The law also said to not attach to it if there was a reasonable other place. On my trailer it would have been to go to the bottom of the main frame. Now that could have led to worse issues if the frame had highcentered on something . So all in all I give him an attaboy.

"As far as insurance:yes the tractor was supposed to be insured,they took my money for it but no they did not cover it."

Sounds like you have resigned yourself to the insurance company's decision. What was the reason (or loophole) that allowed them not to cover your tractor? I wonder how many of us have something insured and when push comes to shove, it isn't ???

Take the insurance company to court . Even small claims is better than nothing .

To quote my father, Did you learn anything? I think you were doing what you thought was right to keep your load secure. It sounds like you werent wrong, but will you do it the same next time? I would wager you will do more next time you secure a tractor (or anything else) to a trailer. Reading this post, I will too!

If he had the puller insured as a "farm tractor" i am not surprised the insurance company refused to pay.
Would be like trying to collect on a totalled NASCAR when it was insured as a Mustang.
Thats why he no has motorsports vehicle insurance based on the value vs what it is.

Yes you need 4 chains.
But tell me.....
How's the 2 chains on the front of the tractor prevent movement in the forward direction.

So the 2 chains on the back are the only thing stopping the tractor from moving forward and they need to hold 80% of the weight.

My question is: What was your purpose for dredging this back up after a full year? The dead horse had been beaten thoroughly and repeatedly. Why dig it back up for a few more rounds?

John in LA, My goodness, that is some advice from a SAFETY DEPARTMENT. I will remember that the next time I see an Estes truck coming my way.