Kubota and the rest are missing out on some real opportunity. My diesel compact tractor has gelled up two days in a row, I'd sure like to have the same tractor with a gas engine and fuel injection right about now. Supposedly I have winter blend diesel and added lots of Howes treatment but still gelled. Changed filters no luck. I'll pump it out and fill it with straight number 1 tomorrow.
- Thread starter Doug-Iowa
- Start date
You didn't say what make of tractor you have? If your filters are fresh, you have a block heater, you're using premium diesel fuel from a supply tank with a water block filter, and those filters on the tractor are mounted where they get heat from the engine, what is happening to you should not be happening. Please tell us more.
I figure with the added expense and complications of new diesels having to meet emissions standards , it may be a matter of time until your wish comes true. There would definitely be a market for lower hp lower use machines, especially in colder areas if winter use is needed. Of coursenow we will have to wait and see if more regulations are coming, and that may slow developement of anything new .
neverfear
Member
- Location
- South Central MN
Don't make the mistake of running it in and out of a heated shop all winter long. I don't know if that is the case here but I have done it and it can put a lot of water in the fuel in short order.
Bob Bancroft
Well-known Member
- Location
- Aurora NY
I keep a couple of antique tractors around for that reason. And I agree, it would be nice to have a tractor with modern features, and a gas engine. I have an AC 175 D, which, for the way I use it, I wish it was gas. That was the last gas tractor they produced!
David the first or next thing coming is a hybrid , the is they are going to take a 40 hp compact and put a lesser hp engine but the starter and battery will be of such that when you need the true 40 hp ( like loading the loader bucket ) the electric starter or motor will help produce that power say for a minute or short burst. I think we will test a proto-type of this set up in the next 12 months or so. When George was so against buying a new diesel but wanted gas I went all the way to the top with that question and most time the answer was the pollution controls on a gas tractor would be hard to implement.
2013 Massey 1635. Izieki built. Great tractor until it gets below zero.
New block heater last year and it is working, had it plugged in for 6 hours. New battery. Preheater works. New OEM filters. But I wouldn't call the diesel premium, we have a chain convenience store close by so its handy for fuel. But the fuel quality is suspect. Says "winter blend" but is also says bio diesel. That's why I dumped in a good amount of Howes. I know I can get no. 1 at the farm center 15 miles away but I'll have to use jugs which is a pain.
I don't think it is gelling in the filter. It started but was still short on power when I changed filter, and the one I took out didn't show a gross amount of wax. I put the heat gun on the filter housing and that helps a little. But the electric pump is right behind the filter housing and heating it helped a lot. So I think it is plugging up the pump. Once I warmed the pump it would run fine for about a half hour then act up again. Pump hangs on a bracket no heat from the engine gets to it.
I know little about diesels, but my son does and thinks my engine is a total consumption pump. Meaning no fuel returns to the tank. Other designs recirculate fuel, which helps keep the fuel warm once the tractor warms up. He recommends we put an Arctic Fox kit on it that circulates coolant thru tubing in the tank. But the tractor is so compact there is no good access to the plastic fuel tank for hoses that size. One idea I thought about was a 12v RV holding tank heating pad under the tank. But a big job to remove the tank to install it. Next thought was some sort of 12v submersible heater, I can probably get a 1/2 hole in the tank next to the fill cap to install then silicone around the wires. Needs to be self regulating so not to melt the tank. Haven't found anything like that yet.
New block heater last year and it is working, had it plugged in for 6 hours. New battery. Preheater works. New OEM filters. But I wouldn't call the diesel premium, we have a chain convenience store close by so its handy for fuel. But the fuel quality is suspect. Says "winter blend" but is also says bio diesel. That's why I dumped in a good amount of Howes. I know I can get no. 1 at the farm center 15 miles away but I'll have to use jugs which is a pain.
I don't think it is gelling in the filter. It started but was still short on power when I changed filter, and the one I took out didn't show a gross amount of wax. I put the heat gun on the filter housing and that helps a little. But the electric pump is right behind the filter housing and heating it helped a lot. So I think it is plugging up the pump. Once I warmed the pump it would run fine for about a half hour then act up again. Pump hangs on a bracket no heat from the engine gets to it.
I know little about diesels, but my son does and thinks my engine is a total consumption pump. Meaning no fuel returns to the tank. Other designs recirculate fuel, which helps keep the fuel warm once the tractor warms up. He recommends we put an Arctic Fox kit on it that circulates coolant thru tubing in the tank. But the tractor is so compact there is no good access to the plastic fuel tank for hoses that size. One idea I thought about was a 12v RV holding tank heating pad under the tank. But a big job to remove the tank to install it. Next thought was some sort of 12v submersible heater, I can probably get a 1/2 hole in the tank next to the fill cap to install then silicone around the wires. Needs to be self regulating so not to melt the tank. Haven't found anything like that yet.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Kubota and Yanmar both used to make 3 cylinder gas motors about 20 HP to put in garden tractors.
I currently have four Kubota's and anyone of them would start right now with no problem using the preheater. 65 hp being the biggest 25 hp is the smallest. I do have a plug in heater on a B 3000 but don't use it. It started at -20 a couple years ago with no help. It was 2 above this morning and it started with the preheater, counted to 15 with the preheater on then started it. I run number two fuel with a water filter on the storage tank and I put a additive in the bulk tank every winter. I change the fuel filters once a year on the tractors and clean the bowl out in between time once. I use the B3000m daily in the winter and the M6060 at least once a week to grind feed. I live in Mid Mi. and it does get cold here. Its 10 degrees here now and my Super C Farmall would be the only one that may not start. I have put a trickle charger on the B3000 at night sometimes when I now its going below zero but the battery is 6 years old on it.
If you do a 60/40 blend or 50/50 #2/#1 or kerosene you should be fine.Is there any way to help keep engine heat in - make a removable cover or panel to keep heat on, maybe block part of radiator with a cardboard to be sure you maintain tempurature. How cold has it been getting since the gelling started??
First day it was -14, today I think it got up to -6 or so. Same for tomorrow. I put cardboard from the radiator to the cab on the fuel pump side of the engine, but didn't help. The thermostat is hot enough to keep the cab plenty warm. From what everyone seems to be indicating I got bad fuel.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Check again . Kubota makes a complete line of direct replacement bolt in spark ignition engines up to 100HP.
For applications were LP or NG is the desired fuel . Or where the weather and type of operation makes a Tier IV diesel a liability instead of an asset .
Manufactures in the US and Canadian markets are now bracing for Tier V emission they were expecting four years ago .
The current small diesels under 19Kw used in small equipment are going to loose their loophole and have to meet the emissions standards of larger Diesel engines .
Refs will be zero particles out the exhaust .
Either get ready to pay for a particulate filter and urea injection on your zero turn mower, CUT , forklift , man lift ,
Small generator etc . Or purchase a spark ignition engine with fuel injection .
Doug: I'm not familiar with that model tractor but my best guess is that you should look for the best winter fuel source you can. That might be Jet A at your local airport or Artic diesel if it can be found in your neck of the woods. Does your tractor tank have a drain or can you get the fuel that is in there now out? Is it possible for you to warm that tractor up? Like, put a tarp over it with a torpedo heater or electric heater under it and when the tractor is warm, get it started and run it for a long time? While running, pour in the Jet A or kerosene or arctic diesel and just keep it running until it has ingested the new fuel. Don't worry about excessive running time. Friend of mine was a Panzer company commander on the eastern front and they kept their diesel engines running from November through March. Never shut them down.
wore out
Well-known Member
It would be MUCH easier to plan ahead and use up your "summer fuel" before winter sets in, than do what it takes to have GOOD #1 in it before ccccold sets in.
I have a Green 4020 that is over double the HP/fuel use of your little Massey and it currently has 25 gallons of #1 in it that was hauled 25 miles in jugs.
I move snow with it and another 10 or 20 gallons should be more than adequate UNLESS the rest of the winter has "The Snowfall of the Century".
How many hours do you put on your Massey over the winter and roughly how many gallons of diesel do you burn?
Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
Bio blend diesel can be a cold weather problem. If you take a fuel line off before the filters, how is the flow? I would blow some compressed air back through the line from filter base to tank. A restriction in the line can cause more trouble in cold weather than warm. I had a MX 100 Kubota that the fuel pump would freeze at zero Fahrenheit another consideration
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
The loggers of N MN run diesel equipment all winter, as cold as -40 and they keep going. When they first started adding bio there was some problems, but now they know you just can't use summer diesel in the winter. Our JD4600 is easy to drain so in Oct. I drained the summer fuel and put in 5 gallons of no 1. I don't use it much in cold weather so in April I will probably dump the summer diesel back in. If compact tractors switch to gas engines it will be for emission standards if anything. Most owners of compact tractors don't put many hours on so the cost of fuel is minimal.
My brother-in-law has fuel tank heaters and fuel filter heaters on his small fleet of Peterbuilts. He thinks the return from the cab heater goes.thru both fuel tanks and both filter bases. They run from Illinois Ohio Michigan down to South Texas. Says can run strait no. 2 if don't shut them off.
M-MAN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bostic, NC
You must be mistaken. The general YT consensus anytime gas or fuel oil is mentioned is the oil companies put everything you need in their products. Snake oil additives are unnecessary, waste your money and may harm your engine. 🙂
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
If there was a market for gasoline tractors, someone would build them.
I'm sorry to hear about your gelling problems, but I don't think many folks would want to trade the totally manageable gelling issue for all the baggage that comes with a gas engine.
I've had gelling issues with a fuel oil furnace when the fuel was old. Adding a quart of Power Service to the tank every November has pretty much eliminated that problem.
I'm sorry to hear about your gelling problems, but I don't think many folks would want to trade the totally manageable gelling issue for all the baggage that comes with a gas engine.
I've had gelling issues with a fuel oil furnace when the fuel was old. Adding a quart of Power Service to the tank every November has pretty much eliminated that problem.
When using Winter Blend PLUS occasional use of some sort of anti gel snake oil I (past farmer and used tractor dealer) NEVER had such a problem. I wonder about the quality and actual make up of the fuel you have ???????? Of course, for high power ag or road use diesel is superior although sure for a lot of extreme cold weather use a gas tractor could be a good thing.
Best wishes, hope you find a solution
God Bless America
John T
Best wishes, hope you find a solution
God Bless America
John T
Determined
Well-known Member
Wouldn't much matter if you had the fuel in the tank boiling hot, by the time it makes it's way through the lines, pumps, filters etc it will be cooled off and of course once it sits overnight the fuel in the lines will return to ambient temperature.
I started several tractors multiple times in the past two weeks for feeding the cattle, temp's have been in the -40 range, only thing I had to do related to fuel was fill one up.
Tractors were outside and plugged in.
From what you have posted it sounds like you already know how to solve your problem.
No reason to reinvent the wheel when the solution to your problem is only a 15 mile drive away.
If you hate messing around with jerry cans you could probably buy a transfer tank and pump for less than all the heaters you spoke about.
Siphon out whatever you can from your tank.
Fill it up with the right fuel.
Let it run for an hour, sit back and enjoy a cup of coffee or whatever, problem solved.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
I do not understand #1 why people try to use biodiesel or #2 diesel in the winter . #2 why they are surprised when the fuel filter jells with wax .
you may have more water in your tank than you think possible,
if you park inside it is above freezing or above and drops below every night you can get lots of water build up in the tank. That can cause a lot of problems.
buy better fuel as antigell is a joke at best.
40 years II have had 1 tractor do that and that is because I had filled the tractor right to the top with summer fuel and never used more than half a tank before we had -25. tractor stayed running till I could get to the bulk tank and fill with winter fuel. Left it running for half hour and had coffee. no problems after that. i have a water filter on my bulk tank and my dad does not. He always had trouble with tractors and semi. I bought his tractor and semi and have never had an issue. I blame it 100% on his lack of filter on tank. There is an amazing amount of water that gets into fuel in multiple ways these days.
if you park inside it is above freezing or above and drops below every night you can get lots of water build up in the tank. That can cause a lot of problems.
buy better fuel as antigell is a joke at best.
40 years II have had 1 tractor do that and that is because I had filled the tractor right to the top with summer fuel and never used more than half a tank before we had -25. tractor stayed running till I could get to the bulk tank and fill with winter fuel. Left it running for half hour and had coffee. no problems after that. i have a water filter on my bulk tank and my dad does not. He always had trouble with tractors and semi. I bought his tractor and semi and have never had an issue. I blame it 100% on his lack of filter on tank. There is an amazing amount of water that gets into fuel in multiple ways these days.
Husker 50 8n
Member
I agree, small (around 60 HP and under) gas powered tractors would sell. Fuel injection and electronic ignition have eliminated much of the maintenance problems the older gas tractors had. I don't mind the older gas burners either but you have to understand a choke knob and ignition systems. Newer cars/light trucks for years have taken little maintenance on the fuel systems and ignition system just replace plugs and maybe occationally coil packs and wires. A small acreage gas tractor could run for several years with oil changes and keeping the gas tank full. Some acreage tractors get filled up in the late summer and still have 3/4 tank of #2 by winter. Plus people using them don't understand what it takes to keep a diesel going in the cold. I could see a small 3 or 4 cylinder gas tractor going over fairly well. It would be quiet, smooth running, fuel efficient, no smelly exhaust or DEF, easy starting, and require little maintenance to keep running reliably.
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