LOUSY 8N

I just installed new battery, regulator, key switch, wiring harness, plugs and wires, coil. distributor cap, points and plugs, hydraulic oil, motor oil, anti freeze, remove gas tank and cleaned [whoever said Henry Ford was a smart man?] Why in the world would you design a gas tank that is anchored to the hood? The hood has no hinges to raise it forward. Guess Harry Ferguson was the bright one of the 2.] Engine cranks, doesn't even act like it wants to start. I have checked firing order, traced wiring harness-have 6.33 volts to starter, generator, to coil. Have fire at plugs. Polarized generator/regulator. The only thing I haven't checked is gas at the Carbuerator. Any ideas, anyone? Thanks

trouble shoot first....check gas flow check for spark at coil, at plugs, at cap and then diagnose further....new isn't always better. Let us know what you find and more help will be on it's way.

ben

Please forgive me for asking but, was it running before all this work? You've done quite a list of service items.

WHY all of those parts???

One should always trouble shoot then parts NEVER th other way around or you end up making problems that where not there

(quoted from post at 16:02:56 06/01/21) Please forgive me for asking but, was it running before all this work? You've done quite a list of service items.

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es, if one item changed at a time, instead of shotgun, then it would have been obvious which change resulted in no start.

Four things., air, fuel, compression, proper spark. No need for charging system (gen, VR), hyd oil, antifreeze, polarization, etc......just the four.

Henry would put gas in tank.

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Ford tractor repair

well check the gas

SV... now be nice to him, he is still fresh and tender.

Give it a shot of starting fluid while you crank. If it fires then you know it is a fuel problem.

Ok guys- I did put gas in the tank, I am not an idiot! This tractor has set for years. I bought it and it wouldn't start then. It was so filthy and caked with dirt and grease. The motor oil and hydraulic oil looked like they may have been the original in 1951. I did check all items and they showed just like it does right now that all system are go. I decide to powerwash it, repaint it and replace everything and start from scratch. It was my money and well spent. That still doesn't get it to start!

History of it always helps us help you.

Sat a long time normally means low compression due to sticking rings and or valves so an ATF treatment is in order. Also sat a long time many times means carb that needs to be rebuilt and or checked out. One good test for fuel is to pull the carb drain plug and make sure you have a good steady flow of gas tat will fill a pint jar in less then 3 minutes and 2 is even better. Yes catch the gas so as to check for dirt/rust etc.

Did you clean the carb? I'd check to see if it fires by spraying some carb cleaner into the air intake while cranking and if it fires then it is a fuel problem (probably plugged up carb).

Don't take it too personal. Theses guys really know there stuff. They do like to razz a little bit. There is a wealth of knowledge on this site.

(quoted from post at 12:45:57 06/01/21) I just installed new battery, regulator, key switch, wiring harness, plugs and wires, coil. distributor cap, points and plugs, hydraulic oil, motor oil, anti freeze, remove gas tank and cleaned [whoever said Henry Ford was a smart man?] Why in the world would you design a gas tank that is anchored to the hood? The hood has no hinges to raise it forward. Guess Harry Ferguson was the bright one of the 2.] Engine cranks, doesn't even act like it wants to start. I have checked firing order, traced wiring harness-have 6.33 volts to starter, generator, to coil. Have fire at plugs. Polarized generator/regulator. The only thing I haven't checked is gas at the Carbuerator. Any ideas, anyone? Thanks

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I would check for gas where gas needs to be.

I was just pointing out what could happen -

Check the spark at the plugs again. Sometimes after washing one, water will condense under the cap, may be a day or 2 later, so recheck just to say you did. Did you have the distributor out? A front mount will only go on one way. A side distributor can go many ways and may be 180* out if you only went by the timing mark.

To check for fuel delivery to the carb, with the fuel on, engine off, remove the drain plug from the bottom of the carb bowl. It should have a steady flow, not slow to a drip or stop.

An easy test of the engine and fuel system, disable the ignition, remove the air filter hose, hold your hand tightly over the air inlet of the carb, have an assistant crank the engine over. You should get a strong steady vacuum and your hand wet with gas.

No vacuum means stuck valves, vacuum with no fuel means either no fuel in the carb bowl, or the main jet is clogged. or the adjustment screw is turned all the way in. It is possible for the tip of the main jet needle to break off in the jet if tightened too tight.

If all checks out, and the engine has not been run in a while, it may have dry rings. A small amount of engine oil in each cylinder will help seal the rings, boost compression, may be just enough to get an initial start.

SV. That's my favorite video! Just did a cub like that!

before you get to frustrated do you have gas going thru the carb, #2 you said you have a spark do you have a dist or mag??? that needs to be determined right out the gate, I learned that lesson the hard way nearly 50 years ago. Once that is determined let me know and I'll try to help. Don't feel bad wife's cousin got the fever for one so he bought a decent one but even though it ran really good, if it fluttered he would start throwing parts at it, each time he would bring it to me to straighten out. The last time that happened it took me 2 hours to figure why it would not start after a master mechanic and himself done a full tune up including a new carb and water pump, which it didn't need. I won't go into a lot of detail but not being able to determine when the #1 piston is at tdc other than compression and the flywheel being mounted 90 degrees off sure can make things a little tough.

A mag on an 8N is very rare so not likely. It could have either the front mount distributor or the side mount and things are different between the 2 of them

First things first. You have spark? Gap a plus about 1/8 of an inch. You should be able to get spark at that gap. Bright blue spark too. Then there is a plug on the bottom of the carburetor bowl. Pull it. With the gas turned on that should flow about the size of a pencil. Or fill a pint in 2-3 minutes. As someone pointed out catch the gas so you can see what it looks like. Let us know the results. You may need to do a compression check but do the other steps first.

Rick

Believe it or not, most of us, if not all of us at one time or another have tried to start a tractor without checking the gas tank. Then, after cussing and checking points, spark etc, finally checked the tank to find it empty. Those updraft carbs from time to time would let the gas drain leaving the tank empty. Personally, I would recheck the points to see if they had slipped closed. I've had that happen before. You'll find it, just follow the old kiss method keep it simple stupid (and I'm not calling you stupid at all but I've sure called myself stupid lots of times for not thinking about the simple things). Keith

Like others said,you are just throwing parts at it.How long was it sitting? I will guess that you have a couple of stuck valves. If you have fire at the plugs that leaves only a fuel or compression problem.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned )and it got me) was the air cleaner. Mine had water under the oil raising the level too high so that, even though I had spark, it would flood the engine and cause it to not start. A thorough cleaning of the mesh is in order, as it had become like sludge in there.

I have read all of the replies and criticism to my question. I thank you for your insights. I simply was cleaning up this old piece of history and giving it a facelift which not only included appearance but tuning it up and breathing life into it. I know there are some including my friends that own these pieces of history that never do anything to them including changing oil, plugs, points etc. I am trying to keep this iconic machine at its best so if you want to say I am just throwing parts at it that is your right. My point is it was hard to start from the beginning. I have read post after post on this sight about 8N not starting, 8N running rough, 8N missing etc. so these machines are a problem for most owners. Again thanks for the information.

(quoted from post at 08:40:30 06/02/21) I have read all of the replies and criticism to my question. I thank you for your insights. I simply was cleaning up this old piece of history and giving it a facelift which not only included appearance but tuning it up and breathing life into it. I know there are some including my friends that own these pieces of history that never do anything to them including changing oil, plugs, points etc. I am trying to keep this iconic machine at its best so if you want to say I am just throwing parts at it that is your right. My point is it was hard to start from the beginning. I have read post after post on this sight about 8N not starting, 8N running rough, 8N missing etc. so these machines are a problem for most owners. Again thanks for the information.

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hat did I miss? It seems that you said it wouldn't start when you got it, then you changed most things and it still wouldn't start, then in the last post, you say it was hard to start from the beginning. So, did it ever start or not?

(quoted from post at 22:21:44 06/01/21) before you get to frustrated do you have gas going thru the carb, #2 you said you have a spark do you have a dist or mag??? that needs to be determined right out the gate, I learned that lesson the hard way nearly 50 years ago. Once that is determined let me know and I'll try to help. Don't feel bad wife's cousin got the fever for one so he bought a decent one but even though it ran really good, if it fluttered he would start throwing parts at it, each time he would bring it to me to straighten out. The last time that happened it took me 2 hours to figure why it would not start after a master mechanic and himself done a full tune up including a new carb and water pump, which it didn't need. I won't go into a lot of detail but not being able to determine when the #1 piston is at tdc other than compression and the flywheel being mounted 90 degrees off sure can make things a little tough.

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...and the flywheel being mounted 90 degrees off sure can make things a little tough." That is one good thing about an N tractor....you can't bolt the flywheel on wrong. Hole pattern won't allow it.

Oil bath air filter was removed and thoroughly cleaned with mineral spirts and washed with soap and water and air dried for about a week.

It started 1 time when I bought it after cranking on it for 30 minutes but never again.

I dont get it,youre bad mouthing the tractor even though you acknowledge that its had little to no maintenance then complain that it wont start after making zero effort to diagnose whats wrong. I cant imagine what you were expecting.

(quoted from post at 19:17:56 06/03/21) It started 1 time when I bought it after cranking on it for 30 minutes but never again.

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K, now just maybe we can proceed. You have verified the firing ORDER, BUT not which is #1. You likely are going by the "1" marked on the distributor cap or some often said phrase about " one o'clock". DO NOT DO THAT! The distributor can be inserted into the engine such that any one of the 4 holes in cap can be #1. Most will give info on finding TDC on compression stroke & that is all well & good for the experienced, but I say save your time and frustration by trying all 4 possibilities. Faster & you don't need to know much to accomplish it. You have already tried one, so only 3 to go.

Don't know where you got the idea I haven't diagnosed anything. I ran check on all wire connections, checked voltage, battery, generator etc. step by step. Pardon me!

(quoted from post at 06:47:22 06/04/21) Don't know where you got the idea I haven't diagnosed anything. I ran check on all wire connections, checked voltage, battery, generator etc. step by step. Pardon me!

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I suggest you tone it down a bit, if you want people to try and help you. You keep snapping at people when they try to offer advice. Realize that this is a forum and you will get all manners of replies, including repeated suggestions to check what you have already checked. We all can get into a mindset where we get blind to mistakes we've made in the process, "I've already checked that and it was fine!" instead of actually checking things. Later with a fresh set of eyes after you've had time to cool down, you see that you actually missed something.

Instead of "I already checked that!" check it again, as many times as it takes. You can't have done everything perfectly and the tractor still not start. It's just not possible.

(quoted from post at 06:47:22 06/04/21) Don't know where you got the idea I haven't diagnosed anything. I ran check on all wire connections, checked voltage, battery, generator etc. step by step. Pardon me!

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It's easy to say you haven't diagnosed everything. Not once have you ssaid anything about fuel to the carburetor and or through. You also haven't posted any numbers for compression. You have to have an ignition source, fuel air mixture and compression to make an IC engine run. So you have spark. Great. You say you checked the firing order but never mentioned if you have determined if the #1 wire is going to the #1 cylinder at the right time. I don't care about the generator wiring or if it even works. With a fully charged battery the tractor should start and run if the generator or voltage regulator is dead. But the key to making sure an 8N will start and run is it jumping a gap of about 1/8 an inch with a bright blue spark as a test of the ignition system.

So next if fuel. You cleaned the tank. OK? What about checking for gas to the carburetor? I bought an 8n years ago that wouldn't run. The fuel valve built into the the fuel bowl was packed tight with stuff. No fuel getting to the carb. I've also seen people forget to turn the fuel on. I've seen a lot of carbs on tractors so dirty inside that no fuel gets through them. Easiest way to check that is the plug on the bottom of the fuel bowl. That determines that fuel is in fact getting to the carb. Now you have to determine that the fuel is getting through the carb and into the cylinders. That can be tested by spraying a combustible fluid into the mouth of the carb while cranking. Lot of folks like WD40 for that. A few will use ether but many don't like that on a gas engine. Some will even use a spray bottle with gas in it.

The last is compression. Without good compression it can be hard starting to won't start at all. I'd have to check but I seem to remember 90-125 being in to OK range on the 8N. Some people go to 12 volt to get a weak engine to spin faster to get it to start.

Now that being said. It's getting tuff if not impossible to find good reliable voltage regulators for older IC engines. Same is true with points and condensers. My last 8N I put in what most consider to be top of the line points in only to have the points not line up by half the width of the contacts new out of the box. Those were Blue Streak. I'd already gotten rid of the probmatic voltage regulator by going to 12 volt and an alternator. So at that point I went to electronic ignition.

Now sir, about your attitude. You are asking for help here. OK some folks haven't been gracious with their replies. But neither have you. I'm willing to do a bit of typing help if I can but when you fail to respond to specific questions or get mad because we ask for further clarification it gets to the point where people will refuse to help. Yep, just checked my meter.......you have almost pegged it at this point.

Rick