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Can you give me an estimate?

L

Leroy

Well-known Member
I have a 2001 Dodge Dakota that is one of my daily drivers. Last fall it started using antifreeze. Think a water pump. Well I only got an estimate then before parking for winter, it is only a 2 wheel drive while my other Dakota is 4 wheel. Last fall the estimate to repair was $150, now getting out to get repaired, same garage now estimate $350 for what was the $150 last year. What would you think would make in now $200 higher than last fall. Have parts gone up that much.Going to take in tuesday. I am not a mechanick and at 78 even if I was I could no longer do something like that. This is a garage-tire store that have delt with since the mid 90's. Tried getting on O Rileys and Advance to see what their price would be. It is the 6 cylinder model and automatic.
 
Get other estimates from other independent shops. and find out what the flat rate hours is listed for that combo. Jim
 
I hate to say it but $150 won't much more than get the hood raised up and the old anti-freeze drained out in most places now. The 20.00 an hour mechanics are history. Mcdonalds is paying close to that to flip burgers. I don't like it and no one else does either, Farmers don't like $5.00 a gallon diesel fuel and $1000.00 a ton fertilizer either, but I'm afraid it's all here to stay for a couple more years.
 
If it is a 6 cylinder as stated by the original poster, most likely it is the 3.7 V-6, the smaller version of the 4.7 V-8.
 
Could be the water pump, but if I remember right those engines were prone to intake manifold gaskets leaking coolant also, had that happen on my 99 Dakota v6, everything has gone up, so cant help you with price
 
Im guessing your wanting to know about the price increase. Yep everything is much more expensive. How could it not be ? Tim Hortons around here which is a coffee, donut, food place starts their employees at 17 bucks an hour. Local burger joint is 19. No skills needed . The way we are going isnt good.
 
I can't give you an estimate for your truck, but last spring I bought a new shank for my Glencoe field cultivator for $80. I need to replace another one this spring and just ordered it, but it's now $115. So parts are climbing quickly and steadily, just like so many other things these days.
 
Dont worry, maybe theyll raise minimum wage again - then youll have money and to spare..... :lol:

Seriously though, my 3.9 V6 was leaking at the timing cover. 65$ for a new waterpump, $25 for a timing cover gasket and $50 ish for the timing chain & tensioner while I was in there. Took me a little over 3 hours. I charge people $50/hour.... after coolant I wouldve charged myself close to that 350.
 
I used to drive a Dakota with that 3.9 and I do remember changing the water pump in it. While it wasnt a terrible job, I remember thinking to myself that if my truck had the 318 in it , most likely it would have been a PITA. Perhaps they just did a more realistic estimate this time. Parts and labor charges HAVE gone up lately.
 
Also, my 3.9 had 2 freezeplugs rot out and leak. One on each side, of course they were behind the engine mounts. Is your leak under the front end or mid point of the motor?
 

I would price a OEM pump, thermostat and housing, heater bypass tube, top and bottom radiator hoses, belts, belt tensioner and idler pulley, heater hoses, by-pass hose, belts and coolant. I would use OEM parts as much as possible. I figure $750 to $800 take it are leave it.

If you are a price shopper we all got to eat I have no problem with the low shop working for nutt'in : ) He is so busy working for nutt'in he does not have the time to cull the cheap arses.

I am not calling anyone a cheaps arse but $150 using the cheapest water pump no one is making money. Even two years ago.

Not to long ago I did a 2001 1500 I also replaced the radiator and coolant temp sensor $1100 stick out in my mind. He has another 2001 I got tired of aftermarket pumps LEAKING it got a OEM pump the last time I replaced it.

Those Thermostat housings rust out aftermarket by pass hoses don't fit and the heater by pass tubes rust out are a aftermarket don't fit well its either in your hand are setting there looking at it its time to go get'em...
 

They are the same basic design. At 21 years old it will have some unknow issue that will eat time away so a shop would need to add time for that.
 
I dont think our Tims or McDonalds pays any more than the minimum $15.00 wages, unless you are management here. I am a cheap guy I guess, Ill just go home and make a pot of coffee, rather that give them 2 bucks for the privilege of drinking my coffee out of a paper cup.
 
About 10 years ago I needed a new water pump on my 1989 F250. Estimate was $500. The pump cost $35. I did it myself and it took about 10 hours. All 8 screws were rusted solid into the aluminum pump housing and snapped off. I had to slice the pump into pieces with a cut off wheel and chisel them off. I plunked a hole in the radiator pulling the fan blades off. I didnt get the pump to seal to the block first time and had to drain and disassemble everything entirely again. I have changed 3ea car water pumps since in about 2 hours each. I have no fear now.
 
I have your twin except mines a 2003. I love that little truck. I bought it 2 months ago so I would have something to drive while waiting for my new Ford van to be delivered. Now I almost wish I wouldn't have ordered the van and just kept driving it.
 

cvphoto122797.jpg
 
Parts have gone up but also the labor to do the job. You may get it apart and have to wait for the parts and go on to work on another vehicle. Then you have to get set up again to do the job when parts come in. I have a different kind of business and the costs to do different projects have doubled in the last year.
 
Besides the other reasons mentioned, if the shop is short on labor they could be cherry picking the jobs they take in rather than bidding to take on every less than desirable money loosing job that might come along. By keeping their work profitable they can pay their help better, keeping the help happy and hopefully have less turnover.
 
The $150 quote is ridiculous, if it was real and they were going to do what you said, you should have jumped on it immediately. Maybe the $150 was parts only? The $350 might still be low, considering parts, labor, tax, coolant, hose clamps, shop supplies etc...

Parts haven't gone up that much, but an older estimate might have included a cheap rebuilt pump, and they've been burned on those, and might be using OEM or at least a different reputable part? There might be more wrong with it now too, maybe they added a belt, or hoses, or fan clutch etc.
 

I'm a mechanic through the apprenticeship program, licensed as I passed all written exams and have a background on costs.
You bring your vehicle to me, I'm NOT going to change only the water pump ( 1000,000 miles +) IF the coolant is filthy, thermostatic clutch fan drive has high miles, serpentine belt has all the signs of garbage, upper and lower Rad hoses are soft and spongey, engine coolant thermostat is the original, Rad cap sealing ring is garbage, serpentine belt tightener is original,etc,etc,
99.99% of all customers are never going to be satisfied they demand warranty if only the water pump is changed as per above and they have to turn around and fork out more of their $$$'s in the near future to replace the other parts that are associated with the water pump change out that should have been changed at the same time.

To may owners are living in the past.
 
(quoted from post at 17:50:22 04/10/22) Also, my 3.9 had 2 freezeplugs rot out and leak. One on each side, of course they were behind the engine mounts. Is your leak under the front end or mid point of the motor?
Click to expand...

How many years old was the coolant when it rusted through the plugs?
 
Any chance different people gave the estimate? Maybe someone knows more than the other.... Either direction.
 
On a vehicle that old may things can go wrong when replacing a water pump, seized and broken bolts, rotted surfaces, other parts at the end of life. Sounds to me like the first estimate allowed for none of that, second one covered some bases. Remember those are estimates, I always try to cover them when giving an estimate as customers are always happy when you come in under an estimate and NEVER happy when you are over. Another factor is shop busyness. When work is piled up estimates go up.
 
Be ready for when they call to say the timing cover has to come off. I quote those 3.9, 318, and 360 waterpumps with also resealing the timing cover. Those are so old, the timing cover to block gaskets are shot. Almost all those I get in for a coolant leak, that's where they are leaking. Even if it is just the pump, one has to take the tension off the 20+ year old timing cover gasket to do the pump, so if it isn't leaking now, it will be after the pump is replaced. You won't get out the door for $350. Probably closer to $800.

As to parts going up? Yes, skyrocketing. Last fall, the premium Napa brakes we use at my shop, the pad/rotor kit combo package cost me $119.99 for trucks. I just got a truck front kit last Friday, $166.69 my cost, after they had been 139.99 since January. We are being led down a very rough road ahead.
 
I attempted to repair a broken A/C line. I asked a garage in town about servicing it. He only knew of one garage that has the equipment for the latest refrigerant. It failed the leak test and so I had them replace the line and service it. The quote was $960 and I was charged $890. The bumper cover wasn't on the vehicle and so the job should have been fairly easy. Some jobs you just have to let someone else do and suck it up when you have pay for it. I don't think the reduced price was a family discount either.
 
(quoted from post at 18:47:59 04/10/22) I have a 2001 Dodge Dakota that is one of my daily drivers. Last fall it started using antifreeze. Think a water pump. Well I only got an estimate then before parking for winter, it is only a 2 wheel drive while my other Dakota is 4 wheel. Last fall the estimate to repair was $150, now getting out to get repaired, same garage now estimate $350 for what was the $150 last year. What would you think would make in now $200 higher than last fall. Have parts gone up that much.Going to take in tuesday. I am not a mechanick and at 78 even if I was I could no longer do something like that. This is a garage-tire store that have delt with since the mid 90's. Tried getting on O Rileys and Advance to see what their price would be. It is the 6 cylinder model and automatic.
Click to expand...


It would be a real good idea to determine exactly where the leak is before requesting an estimate.




This post was edited by Carlmac 369 on 04/11/2022 at 07:30 am.
 
(quoted from post at 21:37:55 04/10/22) I used to drive a Dakota with that 3.9 and I do remember changing the water pump in it. While it wasnt a terrible job, I remember thinking to myself that if my truck had the 318 in it , most likely it would have been a PITA. Perhaps they just did a more realistic estimate this time. Parts and labor charges HAVE gone up lately.
Click to expand...

It would be the same exact job on a 318 only 6" - 8" closer to the radiator which should be removed anyway in either case.




This post was edited by Carlmac 369 on 04/11/2022 at 07:30 am.
 
(quoted from post at 07:20:38 04/11/22) [b:7d2fa0d59d]Be ready for when they call to say the timing cover has to come off. I quote those 3.9, 318, and 360 waterpumps with also resealing the timing cover. Those are so old, the timing cover to block gaskets are shot. Almost all those I get in for a coolant leak, that's where they are leaking. Even if it is just the pump, one has to take the tension off the 20+ year old timing cover gasket to do the pump, so if it isn't leaking now, it will be after the pump is replaced. You won't get out the door for $350. Probably closer to $800.[/b:7d2fa0d59d]

As to parts going up? Yes, skyrocketing. Last fall, the premium Napa brakes we use at my shop, the pad/rotor kit combo package cost me $119.99 for trucks. I just got a truck front kit last Friday, $166.69 my cost, after they had been 139.99 since January. We are being led down a very rough road ahead.
Click to expand...

Dead on.




This post was edited by Carlmac 369 on 04/11/2022 at 07:30 am.
 
(quoted from post at 22:26:22 04/10/22)
I'm a mechanic through the apprenticeship program, licensed as I passed all written exams and have a background on costs.
You bring your vehicle to me, I'm NOT going to change only the water pump ( 1000,000 miles +) IF the coolant is filthy, thermostatic clutch fan drive has high miles, serpentine belt has all the signs of garbage, upper and lower Rad hoses are soft and spongey, engine coolant thermostat is the original, Rad cap sealing ring is garbage, serpentine belt tightener is original,etc,etc,
99.99% of all customers are never going to be satisfied they demand warranty if only the water pump is changed as per above and they have to turn around and fork out more of their $$$'s in the near future to replace the other parts that are associated with the water pump change out that should have been changed at the same time.

To may owners are living in the past.
Click to expand...

Yet if a car dealership tells a customer that all that needs done, they're CROOKS!
 
The $150 price would have turning into $300+ after they got started on the project. On a 20+ year old engine replacing the water pump is going to be a PIA with bolts snapping off and the need to replace the timing chain cover before all is said and done. And if you have the timing chain cover off your just as well replace the timing chain while its all apart. As posted below by the time you do it right you'll be into to for $700-$900. If you could do it yourself you might get it done $100 in parts. Labor is a killer on something like that.
 
You said, Think a water pump. There's lots of places to loose water, radiator leak, head gasket, hoses, cracked heads etc. Might be a good idea to be sure what's actually leaking before you change the water pump.
 
Well, here is my 2 cents' worth.

In general, water pumps are not terribly expensive. Anywhere from $25 to over $100. Labor is the number one expense. At today's rates and figuring an average of about 2 hours to replace the pump, the $350 is not out of line. Old bolts bind, seize, corrode, and break. Old gaskets are sometimes hard to remove. There is a high probability that more than just the water pump will need to be replaced. Also keep in mind that there is also a materials expense involved. Anti-freeze, abrasives for cleaning gasket surfaces, clamps, and other miscellaneous items.

They aren't trying to rob you.
 
(quoted from post at 16:47:59 04/10/22) I have a 2001 Dodge Dakota that is one of my daily drivers. Last fall it started using antifreeze. Think a water pump. Well I only got an estimate then before parking for winter, it is only a 2 wheel drive while my other Dakota is 4 wheel. Last fall the estimate to repair was $150, now getting out to get repaired, same garage now estimate $350 for what was the $150 last year. What would you think would make in now $200 higher than last fall. Have parts gone up that much.Going to take in tuesday. I am not a mechanick and at 78 even if I was I could no longer do something like that. This is a garage-tire store that have delt with since the mid 90's. Tried getting on O Rileys and Advance to see what their price would be. It is the 6 cylinder model and automatic.
Click to expand...

$150 last year was a low ball quote, parts for that truck haven't gone up that much.
A quick search on Rock Auto found a Dayco water pump for $45, Dorman heater bypass tube was $28, you'll need that was the original is glued in and won't come out, while I was there I'd replace the coolant bypass hose between the intake and water pump, and recommend to the customer that we replace the thermostat while it's easy to get to.
Most shops if they get the parts they will mark them up at lease 50% so parts and antifreeze will cost you $150-$175
Local independent shop here get $60 per hour while dealers charge $100 per
The job would cost me $275-$300 quoting those parts to be changed.
Me and the shops I deal with have a firm understanding that if any additional work outside the of the original job quote is needed, they are to contact me before that work is done, even if they have to shove it out of the shop while waiting for me to call back
Any mechanic or shop worth it's salt will have a coolant system tester to pressurize the system and find the leak. A intake, timing cover or thermostat leak is not going to leak out of the water pumps weep hole and run down the fact of the timing cover
If the leak is other than the quoted water pump the owner needs to be contacted with new quotes for the needed repair before any more work is done.
 
(quoted from post at 15:41:17 04/11/22)
(quoted from post at 16:47:59 04/10/22) I have a 2001 Dodge Dakota that is one of my daily drivers. Last fall it started using antifreeze. Think a water pump. Well I only got an estimate then before parking for winter, it is only a 2 wheel drive while my other Dakota is 4 wheel. Last fall the estimate to repair was $150, now getting out to get repaired, same garage now estimate $350 for what was the $150 last year. What would you think would make in now $200 higher than last fall. Have parts gone up that much.Going to take in tuesday. I am not a mechanick and at 78 even if I was I could no longer do something like that. This is a garage-tire store that have delt with since the mid 90's. Tried getting on O Rileys and Advance to see what their price would be. It is the 6 cylinder model and automatic.
Click to expand...

$150 last year was a low ball quote, parts for that truck haven't gone up that much.
A quick search on Rock Auto found a Dayco water pump for $45, Dorman heater bypass tube was $28, you'll need that was the original is glued in and won't come out, while I was there I'd replace the coolant bypass hose between the intake and water pump, and recommend to the customer that we replace the thermostat while it's easy to get to.
Most shops if they get the parts they will mark them up at lease 50% so parts and antifreeze will cost you $150-$175
Local independent shop here get $60 per hour while dealers charge $100 per
The job would cost me $275-$300 quoting those parts to be changed.
Me and the shops I deal with have a firm understanding that if any additional work outside the of the original job quote is needed, they are to contact me before that work is done, even if they have to shove it out of the shop while waiting for me to call back
Any mechanic or shop worth it's salt will have a coolant system tester to pressurize the system and find the leak. A intake, timing cover or thermostat leak is not going to leak out of the water pumps weep hole and run down the fact of the timing cover
If the leak is other than the quoted water pump the owner needs to be contacted with new quotes for the needed repair before any more work is done.
Click to expand...

Dead on.
 
Took it in today, don't know how much it will cost. Independant garage. And last fall said they had replaced it 2 years ago. Runs perfect and no collant in oil and think all hoses were replaced at time of water pump. Don't think their labor rate jumped that much since last November so just wondering if a water pump would hsve jumped that much in price, figuring labor going up even a hundred dollars in 6 months that would have been a hundred dollar jump in the pump. Only leak is just under the pump. Hoses are all good. Should a pump last over 2 years?
 

Those pumps have always been a problem child for me that's why I went to OEM pumps. Is it worth the savings to take a chance of destroying your engine. ?

How does a shop survive taking those chances its not all about the cost of the repair its about the bilities: reliability, profitability and liability.
 
I don't know if it was an OEM or after market pump that was put on. The other 2 Dakotas I have had were the 4.7 V8 and I have not had to have one replaced. First was a 2000 totaled by a stop sign runner and the other one is a 2003 with over 300,000 on the clock and about rusted away. This 2001 will have to last me rest of my days.
 
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