(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

Neutral safety switch

grandpa Love

grandpa Love

Well-known Member
So..... Let the fight start! Ford guys are all the time saying things like 'you have to have a safety switch' or ' I won't sell a tractor if safety switch ain't hooked up'. All good and fine, but I've never seen a Farmall with a neutral safety switch??? So was it a Ford thing?
 

Early on it was Ford, however most manufacturers had/have them, in one form or another. When each started installing them varied in time frame. The MF65 you just posted about is supposed to have a neutral safety switch.
 
Just about all came from the factory with some form of neutral safety switch, but some did not.

If it came with it, it needs to work.

If it didn't, well not much you can do but be aware it didn't.

It's a matter of liability, I wouldn't want it on my conscience if someone was hurt or killed because I neglected to properly repair or maintain a piece of equipment.
 
Some manufacturers were more concerned about the operators safety than others, that's why we made laws standardizing it. I guess you can disable any safety feature you want for your own use, but if you sell it and someone else is injured by it you may be liable.
 
I think ferguson had safety switches.
Mowers have safety switches.
One time I pulled on the starter, the farmall was in first gear, I was standing behind it. I was lucky to stop it before it drove through my garage.. Lesson learned. NEVER start the Farmall while not sitting on the seat and foot on the clutch..

Have to be fully seated on my new Kubota or it won't start.
Can't get off the seat if the PTO is engaged..

Barney may say the old Farmalls are death machines..lol
 
My first personal tractor was a Farmall A, crank start. My FIL gave it to me, and showed me, you check the shift lever for neutral as you reach for the crank, it was stored in clips right on top of the transmission.
 
My Ferguson TO-20 had the starter switch in the trans using the shift lever to activate the starter. This made it impossible to have the tractor in gear while starting. No safety on my Cub.
 
Some of mine have a safety switch, and some do not. My newer ones from the 1970s until the early 2000s all have safety switches. I will add that the real safety switch is located between the equipment user's ears. It is easy to get in a hurry, but a couple of seconds to pause and think can be a lifesaver.
An 80+ year old nextdoor neighbor who is now in his 90s attempted to start a Super C Farmall a few years ago in his shop. He was standing in front of a rear tire. It had been changed to a 12 volt system. After pulling the starter lever, he was pinned to the floor. The tractor stopped when it hit his shop wall. He was flown by helicopter to an emergency room. We went to visit him. Badly bruised and sore with no broken bones he recovered after some time in rehabilitation. He still drives and gets around. I am thankful for his recovery, and sure he knows where his most important safety switch is.
 
(quoted from post at 05:14:10 04/21/22) Cubs, A, B....... Never seen one...
Click to expand...

Right. You're talking about tractors from different eras. I think your Fords are newer late 50's models, right? Your Farmalls are 1940's models.

Your "letter series" IH tractors (including the Cub) use a big heavy switch to actuate the starter. Neutral safety switches were not practical to implement, were not required by law, and it was a different day and time when the manufacturer could expect the operator to take responsibility for their own actions.

When tractors started using solenoids to trigger the starter, it became stupid simple to implement a neutral safety switch.

With the new 06 series in 1963, IH tractors had clutch safety switches at least. It was probably a legal requirement by then.
 
My 1939 Ford has the starter switch on the dash, my 1941 has the neutral safety switch. It is told that Henry Ford , almost ran over himself and instructed his engineers to come up with the safety switch. The N series uses a linkage in the transmission to activate the starter, simple. joe
 
Everyone is positive that they are too smart and too careful to have an accident .
No matter if a missing or jumpered out safety system played no part in an accident . You have weakened your position and credibility with investigators , the legal system and your i butane company .
 
It is simple. Ford tractors were ahead of their time on a lot of things. 3 point, operator comfort, the operator mounted the tractor from the front not rear, which may be the reason Henry ordered the safety switch. Im sure there are other things but those are the ones off the top of my head.
 
I think all MFs had safety switches. A MF 65 diesel with out a switch would be a real danger. A JD 4020 Diesel Power Shift would be a death machine. I read a story once that the early production Ford-Fergusons didn't have a switch and the story goes that Henry Ford started one from the ground and it ran over his foot.
 
US built Fords had safety switches, British built Fordson Majors did not A Major, if conditions are right, will start before you can get your hand off the starter lever. We supplied tractors to pull green, pea combines, operated by teenagers, so we installed interupter switches, so that the clutch had to be depressed before the starter would operate.
 
When I was about 10 I went into my father's shop and he was working on an H John Deere. I had heard farmers talking about giving the flywheel a nudge with their foot to crank it. So I climbed on it and gave the flywheel a nudge with my foot and sure enough it cranked up and was in first gear with the clutch engaged. I was so surprised that all I could do was to holler whoa at it. Dad was close enough to come grab the clutch lever and stop it. After his sermon I had the safety switch installed between my ears from then on.
 
Not even on the yellow and white striped ones you acquired this year?
The 154 style is up in the mid 70's.

Even the Cub Cadets of that era had a switch.
 
(quoted from post at 09:53:58 04/21/22) US built Fords had safety switches, British built Fordson Majors did not A Major, if conditions are right, will start before you can get your hand off the starter lever. We supplied tractors to pull green, pea combines, operated by teenagers, so we installed interupter switches, so that the clutch had to be depressed before the starter would operate.
Click to expand...
941 Ford family sedan had no neutral start switch and didn't even need a key to run the starter. Little brother ~ 4 or 5, stood on floorboard and backed it down drive and into a ditch with starter.
 
Early Fordson tractors had a bad tendency to flip over backwards killing or severely injuring operators. Those accidents cost Ford a lot of money in both lawsuits and a program to retrofit some safety modifications onto hundreds of thousands of already sold tractors. I can understand why a low cost neutral safety switch would be attractive to the company.

When did Ford add neutral safety switches to cars? By the mid 1960s most other farm equipment and auto manufacturers followed suit.
 

Ford automobiles with manual transmissions didnt have start safety switches on till they come out with the clutch safety switch in the 80s. Ones equipped with automatic transmissions had neutral safety switches as far back as the 50s
On pre 65 Ford tractors the starter button could not be activated until the transmission shifter was placed in neutral, SOS trans models had neutral safety switches, 65/later had neutral safety switches, these were prone to failure and many were bypassed
 
I guess I just got used to those IHC tractors with no safety switches from the 50's. I'm not so smart as to not have a problem. Yet I do put them in Neutral and hold the clutch down on them when starting. I tend to do this on all tractors when starting and all vehicles I can hold a clutch down on. If no clutch I sometimes hold the brake pedal down like in a vehicle with automatic transmission in it. Most old tractors I have been around have had the so called safety switches bypassed on them.
 
I think Ford was ahead of it's time on this. Had it, when others didn't. But, as time went along, others followed suite. Or, it was made so others had to follow suite.

For those of you that have tractors without them, or have wired past yours, I have a story, and some advice.

I start many of my tractors from the ground. Because of poor battery connections that you have to jiggle or twist. Or because I have a roach clip from the coil, because the key switch don't work. Or the starter selanoid don't work, and has to be jumped across. Or the starter switch don't work, and I just use jumper cables direct from starter to battery. What ever the case may be, most of my tractors are started from the ground.

I live by myself, and am the only operator of these tractors. No one else ever around. No one else would probably figure out what I was doing to start them anyways, if somebody climbed on and tractor wouldn't start by way of the switch. Any tractor I start from the ground, I shut off from the ground. That's just, KIND OF, my personal safety hack that goes along with it.

Well, one day I went to start my H Farmall on steel. Hadn't had it started in months. Hit the starter from ground, like I normally would. Boy, surprisingly it fired right off for sitting that long. And surprisingly it was in gear. As I was stepping away, out around the front of the rear wheel, one of the steel lugs that was on its way down, got caught up in my coat pocket. I was luckly able to get my coat pocket free of it, before it pulled me down or knocked me over. I ran around behind, stepped up on the draw bar, and pulled it out of second gear without clutching.

I got to thinking, (I know I didn't shut it off in gear). I knew I had to of shut it off from the ground the last time. So, how did it end up in gear? Then it dawned on me. It hadn't been started in a long time. And during that time, my 3 nephews (boys) had been here. And one of them apparently got on there to play, and must of popped it in gear while playing. My fault. I should of checked. Shouldn't of adopted a system of not checking.

So, if you by-pass safety switches and have a system that works for you, don't take it for granite that your tractor is not in gear. The un-thought of, CAN happen.

Save the, you done wrong sermons. I know I was wrong. I'm only telling this story for your benefit. By passing a safety switch alone, is not unsafe. What you do after, is the part that can be unsafe.
 
After a few close calls, when working from the ground, I developed the habit of bumping the starter before turning the ignition on. Then I try to start it. It may jump but it won't start and run over you. Do what works for you but be careful out there.
 
Red, I came that close on my 101 JR. It was spinning tires and climbing my shop stairs when I got around to the back and shut it down. I only push the start button sitting on the seat now - that's my hack, and I'm sticking to it. steve
 
I expect my fords to have it, so I start them from the ground.

Would be a bad thing if they werent there.

The H Im aware it doesnt have it and so I wiggle the shifter before I hit the button.

The Fords are more safer.

The Fords have that feature so one expects it to be there. Poor business not to have it.

Paul
 
Interesting. I don't think I have ever started a tractor without being in the seat. Usually with it in neutral and clutch pushed in.

I have stood alongside and handled the jumper cables. But someone was in the seat doing the starting.

But, I am just a youngster. Turn 73 today.

Ken
 
Like barnyard engineering said, IH didn't put safety switches on until the 06 series in 1963. My 560s and older- nothing.
My 3010 and 4010 JD (series started in 1961) both have neutral switches on them.
 
One might ask, why my tractors are all that way.

Mostly because, replacement celanoids and key switches and so on, are all junk. Replace, and the new one will only work for a week to one year, or whatever. I have a half a dozen tractors. If I tried to stay on top of this, that's all I would get done around here. Replacing key switches and starter celanoids. That, and running back and forth to town to get replacements, instead of using the tractors. That's maybe a tad sarcastic. But also, a little bit if truth to it too!

Half a dozen tractors = 6 switches, and 6 starter celanoids. That is 12 electrical components. Some have separate switch for coil, 3. So that brings the talley to 15. 15 things that don't last long
at all. Equals, one bad or going bad, ALL THE TIME. Most times, I don't have time for that. Especially when I am needing to turn the key, and go.
 
I agree, Ford was ahead of their time on neutral safety switches. Someone had to be the first.

Their solution was quite clever if I'm not mistaken. That big starter switch I mentioned earlier is installed in the transmission, mechanically prevented from being actuated unless the tractor is in neutral.
 
I won't let a Deere go out of the shop with out proving the safety switch...not every one has the common sense to be sure they are in neutral..I would not want to see some one get hurt or killed because I didn't take the time to prove the switch...I think it would be a great jester for the dealers/company's to furnish safety switches free as a customer service..that is if they truly respected the customers safety..The Deere kits are $85...
 
i guess the simple things got stupid already. maybe have to go through the airplane checklist soon before starting. ya i know its all about safety.
 
I don't know how true this is but a few years back someone posted that the reason Ford did the safety switch was because Henry Ford got on a 9N before the safety switch and hit the starter button which was on the dash with his knee and the tractor was in gear and he about fell off the back so he said fix that so it cannot happen to anybody else or some such story
 
Safety equipment costs money. Safety equipment has been learned by industry to install on machinery because it costs less than the law suits that would follow. I've worked in manufacturing for 40 years of my life. Everything was about costs. If a $1000 guard would prevent a million dollar law suit, that's what you did. If operators were disposable like they were 150 years ago, there would be no guarding, as it costs money. That's just the raw facts.

Henry never put anything on his equipment back then that wasn't absolutely necessary. I'm sure this safety starter switch was one of them. I've read the later Fordson's all came with the heavy duty fenders to prevent tips ups, as they were a cheaper alternative to all the law suits that were pending.
 
Some of us 73 year old farts have to learn its always best to be seated all times, especially when you are on the potty. LOL
 
In Henry Ford's day, there were no personal injury attorneys working on contingency and large punitive settlements were unheard of. You had to have money to pay the lawyer to bring a lawsuit, and most farmers didn't have money. If a farmer was maimed or killed by a piece of machinery, he and his family were out of luck.

Ford had the feature added for no other reason than, he personally had a close call. Totally selfish.
 
I like to read everything about Henry Ford that I can find. Would like to see some sources of these near-miss stories. Someone on here made a statement that Henry would sell the model T for $200 if the government didnt force him to make replacement parts. But a couple months later , I still havent been able to locate it.
 
Only one of our tractors has one out of 4, hate the thing but its programmed in the computer. Why not a clutch switch like the rest of the world. Don't start from the ground, is terrible practice. Its like cutting in the kick back zone of a chainsaw bar with your face up close saying nah its ok the chain brake will get it.
 
My neighbor was telling me that he hated John Deere tractors. When I asked him why, he said that he started up his 2 cylinder John Deere and it was in reverse and tore up his barn!
 
I will never wire around a NSS. I have too many employees, good operators, and all, but I can't take the chance and sleep at night if I have someone run over trying to short-start the machine.
 
From many books and stories I've seen, It appears that Harry Ferguson had thst starter switch mounted inside the transmission.
Way before the Ford 9N/2N. Even pre-TO20. Of course he did have that built into the TO20 & TO30.
 
very few Ford or Ferguson guy's were ever run over by there own tractor now ask a IH guy how many were run over i know of 2 JD also know of 1
 
Fords have a quite functional neutral safety switch, and only a moron would disable it. I know of at least one person who was run over by his own tractor when he deliberately shorted out its neutral switch.
 
Well..... Every single Ford I've bought had it by passed.... Lots of morons around here. Add me in. I ain't hooked any back up ..... Bunch of cubs, A and B Farmalls, no safety on those. Funny how easy to call someone a moron from a thousand miles away... Come on over and visit, decide in person if I really am...... I don't believe I really am.....
 
It's funny isn't it? Here I was thinking the moron was the guy who started the tractor in gear and ran himself over...


Rock
 
to20 was a 1948 tractor where the 9n was a 1939 tractor with a safety switch. What were the earlier furgusons with the safety switch?? Just wondering here.
 
Remembering the 9n only had pegs and no running boards, dumping a lot of farmers.... and the left brake and clutch were on the left side,, putting many of tractor in a right side ditch in an emergency stop.. Just wondering from the furgie folks here.
 
Safety switches don't stop a tractor from starting when the starter is jumped from the hot post to the solenoid.Most times the reason its done is because of a faulty safety switch.
 
> Well..... Every single Ford I've bought had it by passed.... Lots of morons around here. Add me in. I ain't hooked any back up ..... Bunch of cubs, A and B Farmalls, no safety on those. Funny how easy to call someone a moron from a thousand miles away... Come on over and visit, decide in person if I really am...... I don't believe I really am.....

Unless you deliberately bypassed a working neutral safety switch, I didn't call you a moron.

If you have disabled the neutral safety switch on a Ford, I have a single question for you: WHY?
 
When I was five and my brother was three, we climbed on our dad's 8N and fired it up. Fortunately it had a working neutral switch and nothing much happened. My older sister came out of the house and shut it off. I still wonder how it might have turned out if the neutral switch had been bypassed.
 
> It's funny isn't it? Here I was thinking the moron was the guy who started the tractor in gear and ran himself over...

In the particular case I mentioned, the person who bypassed the switch and the guy who ran himself over were the one and the same. If they had been different people, then I would count that as two morons.
 
(quoted from post at 12:59:21 04/21/22) I like to read everything about Henry Ford that I can find. Would like to see some sources of these near-miss stories. Someone on here made a statement that Henry would sell the model T for $200 if the government didnt force him to make replacement parts. But a couple months later , I still havent been able to locate it.
Click to expand...


You think folks get cranky because they can't find parts for their obscure 60 year old tractor? Imagine not being able to get parts for a BRAND NEW CAR!

Ford would definitely protect his patents so even if there were such a thing as aftermarket at the time, they would not be able to produce replacement parts because he'd sue them into oblivion. Heck he would probably go after salvage yards parting out cars.

Granted the car would have only cost $200 which was enough but not an insurmountable amount of money at the time, but still...

So you guys can (possibly) thank the government for the existence of replacement parts.
 
(quoted from post at 05:10:06 04/22/22)If you have disabled the neutral safety switch on a Ford, I have a single question for you: WHY?
Click to expand...

Easy. These things have the tendency to fail at the most inopportune time. On a Sunday, with crops that need to be brought in, with rain on the way that will ruin the crop.

Your choice is to bypass the safety switch and get the job done, or let the crop rot in the field. Easy to sit in your recliner and say that you would choose "safety first" but the more practical answer is bypass that d*mn hindrance and get to work.
 
(quoted from post at 14:02:06 04/21/22) One might ask, why my tractors are all that way.

Mostly because, replacement celanoids and key switches and so on, are all junk. Replace, and the new one will only work for a week to one year, or whatever. I have a half a dozen tractors. If I tried to stay on top of this, that's all I would get done around here. Replacing key switches and starter celanoids. That, and running back and forth to town to get replacements, instead of using the tractors. That's maybe a tad sarcastic. But also, a little bit if truth to it too!

Half a dozen tractors = 6 switches, and 6 starter celanoids. That is 12 electrical components. Some have separate switch for coil, 3. So that brings the talley to 15. 15 things that don't last long
at all. Equals, one bad or going bad, ALL THE TIME. Most times, I don't have time for that. Especially when I am needing to turn the key, and go.
Click to expand...

Are you making an exaggerated speech about "solenoids" ?
 
Are you talking about a temporary bypass only intended to last until the crunch is over and there is time available to repair it, or are you talking about a permanent bypass? Yeah I know some people just go from one emergency to the next emergency and never have/make time for proper repairs, LOL.
 
> Easy. These things have the tendency to fail at the most inopportune time. On a Sunday, with crops that need to be brought in, with rain on the way that will ruin the crop.

Not a good reason. First, Ford starter switches are pretty robust and just don't fail that often. Certainly not often enough to explain all the jury-rigged starter switches. I think the starter switch on my 58 year-old Ford 4000 is the original. Second, even if it the starter switch does fail, it is actually much easier to replace the switch than to jury-rig a different switch. (In case you're not aware, the neutral interlock on a Ford is mechanical; there is no neutral switch separate from the starter switch.) Either way, you'll have to make a trip to town to buy a switch. Of course, I understand not every town has a Ford dealer, which brings me to my third point: In an emergency, it's a simple matter to disconnect the starter switch lead and touch it directly to any ground. Instant starter switch! There's no need to butcher your dashboard to install a redundant and unnecessary starter switch.

Let's get serious: There's only ONE reason a person would bypass the neutral interlock on a Ford: It's because that person believes safety devices are bad things. There is a word for people who believe such things...
 
(quoted from post at 14:50:53 04/22/22) > Easy. These things have the tendency to fail at the most inopportune time. On a Sunday, with crops that need to be brought in, with rain on the way that will ruin the crop.

Not a good reason. First, Ford starter switches are pretty robust and just don't fail that often. Certainly not often enough to explain all the jury-rigged starter switches. I think the starter switch on my 58 year-old Ford 4000 is the original. Second, even if it the starter switch does fail, it is actually much easier to replace the switch than to jury-rig a different switch. (In case you're not aware, the neutral interlock on a Ford is mechanical; there is no neutral switch separate from the starter switch.) Either way, you'll have to make a trip to town to buy a switch. Of course, I understand not every town has a Ford dealer, which brings me to my third point: In an emergency, it's a simple matter to disconnect the starter switch lead and touch it directly to any ground. Instant starter switch! There's no need to butcher your dashboard to install a redundant and unnecessary starter switch.

Let's get serious: There's only ONE reason a person would bypass the neutral interlock on a Ford: It's because that person believes safety devices are bad things. There is a word for people who believe such things...
Click to expand...

You make a good statement pertaining to your 64 model tractor with it's push button starter switch on the transmission, but in 1965 Ford went to a 2 wire safety switch that wires in series with the key switch, the switch was on the outside of the transmission shift top easy to get to.
In late 1966 they moved the safety switch inside the transmission, requiring the shift top to be removed to get to the switch, taking the shift top off to replace a safety switch and then reinstalling the top while keeping the shift levers in place out in the field is not a simple 10 minute job.
Ford did make the wiring with male/female plugs on the outside were the switch could be bypassed temporally to get you going
New replacement switches are not as reliable as they once were, I've had 3 fail on my 69 model 4000 and the switch is bypassed at this time. If the switch fails on my 75 model 6600 row crop the deck has to be removed to access the shift top, that's a good days work to replace the switch and get the decking back on.
I agree they should be replaced and not be left bypassed but there are valid reasons for bypassing them at times when you have crops that need to get done.

Item 71 is the switch

mvphoto91167.jpg



This post was edited by Destroked 450 on 04/22/2022 at 03:37 pm.
 
> You make a good statement pertaining to your 64 model tractor with it's push button starter switch on the transmission, but in 1965 Ford went to a 2 wire safety switch that wires in series with the key switch, the switch was on the outside of the transmission shift top easy to get to.

Thanks for the clarification. I was indeed referring to the pre-65 Ford tractors, and I assumed, perhaps mistakenly, that the OP was also referring to the older Fords.
 
Just how would you put a netr ual saftyswitch on an A, B or G tractor? All mechanical linkage. Now on the New Generation I can see that they could have had a safty switch. So how would you customize a Deere A, B or G to put on a netrual safty switch?
 
I would also like to know what the earlier Fergusons were. There was not a Ferguson with just the Ferguson name that I know of built before the TE-20 as a 47-48 model tractor while the Ford 9N was first built as a 1939 model and Ferguson only was involved the the 3 point hitch on the tractor, not the engine or transmission. I know there was a Ferguson Black tractor but dought if Harry had anything to do with engine there and it was only crank start so just a hold down latch on clutch pedal would have been only safty switch.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
need some help with a massey-ferguson 230 wiring issue
Replies
4
Views
321
Brown David
Brown David
B
MF 40 Neutral Safety Switch and wiring help
Replies
4
Views
442
Jim.ME
J
E
1971 Ford 4000 3cyl gas has starting and stopping issue(fickle)
Replies
6
Views
245
sotxbill
S
pcdreams2
ford 3000 timing
Replies
18
Views
689
pcdreams2
pcdreams2
G
John Deere 3020
Replies
12
Views
720
steve in ok
S
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top