Help deciding first project - Ford 9N vs Allis-Chalmers

Hi, I'm looking for a winter project to work on in the garage. This will be my first tractor and will not likely be used for any sort of work as I do not own enough property. I contacted a friend to see if they had any old tractors laying around and I found more than expected. Among the choices for tractors that have just been sitting around for years were three 9n's in various states, a Jubilee which is quite rough, International 184, Ford 4610, and an Allis-Chalmers C.

There is not a lot of information available about these as they belonged to has grandfather that passed away several years ago.

I have narrowed my choices down to a Ford 9N or the Allis-Chalmers C as some of the other choices are newer or larger than I would like. Plus the Ford has two others I could pull parts off of if needed, one of which also has a Sherman.

The 9N I would be interested in is stored indoors and also has a Sherman installed (no idea if it is a step-up or down). Fuel tank is empty and clean, radiator is still full of anti-freeze, and the rear tires are still half aired up or better. But the fuel line has been cut and it's missing at least one spark plug wire plus the entire air cleaner assembly has been removed (Actually, it's missing form all three oddly). So this tells me it likely had some sort of issue when parked.



The second is the Allice-Chalmers C which is in great shape (restored possibly and the seat cushion is still wrapped in plastic even) but has been parked for at least 15 years. The tires had a lot of tread left when parked but have since gone flat and are junk now. Fuel tank still has fuel in it and I'm unsure about the radiator though I would assume it to still be full as well (all of the tractors still were). However my friend remembers his grandpa buying this at an auction and it getting used once, then being parked due to an engine issues, he thinks it was something with the crank but is unsure. It has a belly mounted Woods (I believe, can't remember) mower and the pulley setup on the back/bottom to drive it. No three point hitch added.



I know the Ford is going to be cheaper to repair generally speaking and I have part tractors available and it has better tires. But the Allis is in generally better shape all around and since this will be more of a parade toy, a three point hitch may not be important.

I'd like to hear any thoughts you may have on the matter on which you would think make a better choice and why.

This post was edited by Jeff_K on 11/03/2022 at 01:46 pm.

I would go with Allis as I would agree it
probably has been overhauled sometime
previously. If the engine is free, it
would be a quick clean/refresh job, an
easy one to start with.

Looks like a 2N not a 9N due to the radius rods being tube type instead of I-beam

The "C" in your picture looks like a B to me.

Interesting and you may very well be correct, I am quite new to these. I was unable to tell what number was before the "N" on the block and assumed it was a 9 since I know it's not an 8 and 9 seem more common.

I thought the same thing at first until I went back for a second look around. The serial plate of the Allis says "Tractor No C52835".

Edit: I tried to use the "reply" option and it showed the message I was replying to but then it disappeared. Do I need to use the quote option or did I do something wrong? It's been a few years since I've done much on a forum.

This post was edited by Jeff_K on 11/03/2022 at 02:33 pm.

Both the 9N and 2N the serial number starts with a 9. So if you can read the rest of the serial number you can then check the numbers to see if it is a 2N which is likely going by the radius rods

Plate?? On the A/C tractors the serial number for both the C and B are just forward of the shiftier and will start with either a B or a C.

(quoted from post at 17:29:01 11/03/22) I thought the same thing at first until I went back for a second look around. The serial plate of the Allis says "Tractor No C52835".

Edit: I tried to use the "reply" option and it showed the message I was replying to but then it disappeared. Do I need to use the quote option or did I do something wrong? It's been a few years since I've done much on a forum.

This post was edited by Jeff_K on 11/03/2022 at 02:33 pm.

Click to expand...

Serial number plate or number stamped in the housing ahead of the shift lever?



The arm on the steering box goes down on a B, up on a C. The C has an arm (up) going into the steering linkage in the center of the front the draglink connects to, the draglink on the B goes to the front axle. The arched front axle is a B feature, C was straight. It may be a mutt with a mix of parts if the transmission is stamped as a C.

The Fords are kinda over rated. They don't stand out in a crowd. The Allis does, and would likely cost about the same to make functional. I would take the Allis. Jim

I would go with the Ford. Take a look around the shop and see if you can
find the air cleaners, etc. It should be all grey paint. Originally came
without running boards, but were popular aftermarket. The Ford wins my vote
because you can get on it without risking your bones. The three-point hitch
is not live-powered, but will fit all the more modern implements. The tires and
rims look good, saving that expense. Those right and left brake pedals are
awkward, but you can live with them.
The Allis paint is the wrong color, so that's not a selling point.

Think I would go with the Allis.

Allis is a more attractive tractor for shows, not as plentiful as N's.

The Allis is also overhead valve. If it needs valve work, the head comes off and goes to the machine
shop. The Ford is flathead, either have to take the tractor to the shop or make arrangements to bring
someone out or procure expensive DIY tools.

Whichever you choose, I would try to get it running as is before tearing into it. That way you can drive
it around, make a list of everything it needs. Even then, be careful not to get in too deep. Full on
restorations are expensive and patience demanding! For now a good functional going through, cleaning up,
stopping leaks would be the most practical approach. And get a real paper original print shop manual!

the 9N is a 2N (no real difference between them besides those tubular radius rods replacing I-beam types and a pressurized radiator on the 2N). The engine is a
later (1950-'52) 8N engine with the easy to access ''side mount'' distributor. Easy to work on, best parts availability by far too.

Fix the N Ford first, then skip over that ''B'' and go get the Jubilee as your second project!

I didn't notice the distributor so what the Ford is, is a mutt as in built from a number of parts tractors. So it may well be a 9N/2N/8N mutt

Does the AC have electric start?

Thanks for all of the replies and insight so far, I appreciate it. I was not aware that the 2N had a 9N stamped engine but the serial of 9N17*801 put it as a
1945 2N. The * is because I can not tell if it is a 0 or a 4 but either way it's 1945.

(quoted from post at 17:39:14 11/03/22) Does the AC have electric start?

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Yes, it has electric start. You can actually see the battery cable (also painted) to the right of the vertical steering support. And I have a photo of the other side where I can see the starter.

(quoted from post at 14:51:07 11/03/22)

(quoted from post at 17:29:01 11/03/22) I thought the same thing at first until I went back for a second look around. The serial plate of the Allis says "Tractor No C52835".

Edit: I tried to use the "reply" option and it showed the message I was replying to but then it disappeared. Do I need to use the quote option or did I do something wrong? It's been a few years since I've done much on a forum.

Click to expand...

Serial number plate or number stamped in the housing ahead of the shift lever?

The arm on the steering box goes down on a B, up on a C. The C has an arm (up) going into the steering linkage in the center of the front the draglink connects to, the draglink on the B goes to the front axle. The arched front axle is a B feature, C was straight. It may be a mutt with a mix of parts if the transmission is stamped as a C.

Click to expand...

ttps://i.imgur.com/2zMTGnkl.jpg[/img]

This post was edited by Jeff_K on 11/03/2022 at 08:07 pm.

(quoted from post at 15:28:26 11/03/22) Think I would go with the Allis.

Allis is a more attractive tractor for shows, not as plentiful as N's.

The Allis is also overhead valve. If it needs valve work, the head comes off and goes to the machine
shop. The Ford is flathead, either have to take the tractor to the shop or make arrangements to bring
someone out or procure expensive DIY tools.

Whichever you choose, I would try to get it running as is before tearing into it. That way you can drive
it around, make a list of everything it needs. Even then, be careful not to get in too deep. Full on
restorations are expensive and patience demanding! For now a good functional going through, cleaning up,
stopping leaks would be the most practical approach. And get a real paper original print shop manual!

Click to expand...

I do agree that the Allis is a generally more attractive tractor and not as plentiful. I live in central Illinois (I can't figure out how to add that to my profile quite yet) and I do see several Allis at local tractor shows, but more Fords generally. Though honestly it's mostly JD and Case around here.

Knowing that about the heads does make it slightly more attractive, even though it's likely I would only ever need to do it once. I really wish I knew if this engine had been gone through and "refreshed" or even rebuilt or if the thing was simply painted. Either way it's very possible it has an internal issue but it's likely the Ford does as well.

And that's absolutely the plan. The only down side being if I have to buy tires before I can drive it and then fine out there is a major internal issue. But even the Ford needs new front rubber, I believe.

This post was edited by Jeff_K on 11/03/2022 at 08:19 pm.

(quoted from post at 14:43:47 11/03/22) Both the 9N and 2N the serial number starts with a 9. So if you can read the rest of the serial number you can then check the numbers to see if it is a 2N which is likely going by the radius rods

Click to expand...

You're absolutely correct. I looked up the serial and it does appear to be a 1945 2N. Your other post may also be correct too where you say this might be made from parts as this would explain what appears to be a side mount distributor on a 1945. But perhaps this could be normal. I'm learning everything as I'm going along. I did try to do research before I bothered you guys but alas, I can't lookup questions I don't know I have yet.

I will give a different thought. How good are your legs? The Ford would be easier to get on andyour legs don't have to be streshed out in an autward setting position. I could never be able to get on that AC due to bad hips and legs So that is something to consider. And one picture of the Ford shows that it has the optional 16 front rims that is better all around. I own both a 41 9N and a 44 2N. bought when I was 9 month old. So I am partial to the Fords. But also I would not have the problem geeting on one like I would have with the AC I drove a freinds AC CA and it just about killed my body.

And getting off the B is worse than getting on it.

The serial number, you posted the picture of, is for a 1948 C. I would say that is a mutt, given the front axle and steering linkage in your pictures. Someone may have married a B front half to a C rear half.

One important thing to check is, can you get on and off the Allis? I have an Allis B and an 8N Ford. I won't get on the Allis anymore. It's a job getting on it and I darned near need a hoist to get off. Those little Allis tractors and a JD M have got to be the two worst tractors ever built for getting on and off. The Ford is very easy to get on and off.

I'm gonna say both. Ford is easy to
work on, and has resale value. Allis is
a cool tractor to drive around on.
Definitely more attractive at shows and
parades. Save them both. Decide which
one to keep and restore.

I tend to stay away AC tractors. Gotten worse the last few years too. Every thing to do parts availability.

Rick

The AC does look like a C with a B front end. Unless you have to be correct and are worried about the correct police it doesn't matter much. To me it is part of the
history of the tractor adding interest. I say it is a C from the width of the rear axle housing visible in the picture and the serial no. Who knows how much of the
tractor from the transmission forward is B though. As to which tractor is better it is up to you but to me the fords were more car like and geared a bit high. The ACs are
more tractor like. And a good running B or C will pull like crazy, lot of power for the size. Simple to work on too. What does the engine serial no say?

(quoted from post at 22:29:03 11/03/22) I will give a different thought. How good are your legs? The Ford would be easier to get on andyour legs don't have to be streshed out in an autward setting position. I could never be able to get on that AC due to bad hips and legs So that is something to consider. And one picture of the Ford shows that it has the optional 16 front rims that is better all around. I own both a 41 9N and a 44 2N. bought when I was 9 month old. So I am partial to the Fords. But also I would not have the problem geeting on one like I would have with the AC I drove a freinds AC CA and it just about killed my body.

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Right now I should be fine with getting off and on most of them as I am 31 and do not have any leg problems. However I do have a few lower back issues that stop me from doing many things. I know I should be fine diving either in the short parades that my town has if I choose to but my back likely won't allow more than an hour or two on it at a time.

However, after a conversation with with the current owners today, it looks like they might be willing to trade me the Allis, Ford 2N that I posted, as well as a rougher shape 9N ( I think ) that also has a Sherman for a zero turn mower I've been looking to sale. Luckily I have a place to store the other two for now if this does happen. I just have to decide which one to work on first.