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Will you haul your corn to market using this Semi?

Geo-TH,In

Geo-TH,In

Well-known Member
Tesla team just completed a 500 mile drive with a Tesla Semi weighing in at 81,000 lbs!


According to Tesla, the energy consumption of the Semi is lower than 2 kWh/mile (1.24 kWh/km). At 500 miles of range, the battery capacity would be lower than 1,000 kWh (1 MWh).

In the near future semis in California may have to be EVs.

I read in India, they are waging a war against any vehicle over 15 years old. They have to be scrapped.

Like or hate them, looks like EVs are on their way.

I wonder if Elon Musk has free charging stations for his Semi's?
Elon Musk
 
Most farmers look to buy a well used road tractor to fit their budget. I don't see a Tesla EV road tractor fitting many budgets.
 
I saw loggers in Canada who made their own EV semis. They claimed the fuel saving made it worth going electric.
Their first attempt to retro an electric motor to an old tractor they twisted off the gears in the rear end..
 
I don't see many farmers converting an old road tractor over to EV. Still have to charge and have infrastructure to do so.
 
How many chargers will there be at the silo?

How long will a charge take?

Hundreds of trucks each day at local river port and not a truck stop for miles.
 
I don't know about other states but in NY to work on state road projects(and probably others) a very large percentage of contractors equipment and trucks have to be new enough to meet emission standards.
 
Farmers tend to buy well used many mile over the road semis for the seasonal 5-120 mile hauls we make.

It would be a long time until EV semis would normally make it to the farm use level. The cost per bu moved would be astronomical for most farmers to buy a new EV or conventional semi!

With govt mandates we really dont know wha happens any more, I think a lot of farmers are flummoxed trying to figure out what lies ahead for them in this modern world. Im glad Im old enough I can probably ride things out.

Most of the political mandates from any party at this time seem to be aimed at creating monster sized farm corporations that can afford to use the new expensive technologies and govt grants spread out on many acres. Also very small garden type farms appear to be supported by some govt programs. The typical family farm of today is the one that everyone talks about, but doesnt understand and is the one most in peril of being eliminated from this country.

It is a sad state of affairs.

Yes this is a bit of a political/ emotional response, but Im not all one sided and just my opinion, I hope we can be calm about discussing a real issue and if you feel different than me that is ok we can share ideas not throw bricks at each other. :)

Paul
 
100 years ago no one ever dreamed of hauling 40,000 lbs at one time to market..... And yet here we are. I believe it's call progress?
 
George!
Did I miss a post of yours recently about a company choosing a site near Purdue for a new micro chip plant??

Several billion dollar investment.

If ya missed it, go ahead and post about it.
 
Logging over 600,000,000 miles a year I could see my boss trying some of these trucks. Even if he only saved a fraction of a cent per mile you still talking big bucks.

We already have some trucks that run on LP and most new forklifts are electric. Latest thing is he ordered some trucks that captures the carbon out the exhaust and stores it in a tank on the truck. The carbon can then be gathered and sold to plants that use this carbon in different ways.
 
Both my granddaughters are going to Purdue. My boy is footing the bill.
I heard of the new microchip plant in Lafayette.
Also Purdue and Duke energy are talking about building the new
smaller nuke reactor on the River just north of the campus.
Not 100% ,Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are trying to get
approval to build the small reactor out west.

I was told when I was working at USNAD crane in my college days,
1960s, the first successful plant to grow a pure silicon crystal
was located close to IU university, Bloomington, In.
I think the crystal was maybe less than 2 inches in diameter.
 
I guess I had better haul my 63 split window Vette off to the crusher? Actually have my eyes on a 1950 Cherolet sedan delivery in very good shape.
 
in my area our power grid isnt very new or capable of the ev charge stations. im not sold on this ev thing completely.i can see ev in towns for short trips but out in wide open country might be a ways for a charge place
 
Jphn .... you say the 'carbon' ..... like the black soot in diesel exhaust? Or 'carbon' in some other form as in a carbon compound? Not sure what the below explanation means by 'large diesel particles'.

This is from an internet search ...... 'Black Smoke- this is the most common one and is really just an imbalance in the air to fuel ratio - too much fuel to not enough air. This means either too much fuel is being added to the mix or there's not enough oxygen being supplied to burn the fuel. The black smoke is full of particulates that are basically large diesel particles that normally would be burned as fuel'.
 
Carbon as in CO2 as in carbon dioxide as in greenhouse gases. Its a pilot problem to capture CO2 out the exhaust and make a cleaner burning diesel truck. I think they are talking 80% recovery right now. Plus we get to sell the CO2 to offset the cost of the system.

If we can build a clean burning diesel motor we will not have to figure out how we going to charge a over the road EV truck while out on the road.
 
We that is something John ..... a fair number of links on the internet in a number of places on the planet. One below for reading, not a simple process but man can solve a lot of problems these days ...
Untitled URL Link
 
(quoted from post at 10:26:09 11/28/22) Farmers tend to buy well used many mile over the road semis for the seasonal 5-120 mile hauls we make.

It would be a long time until EV semis would normally make it to the farm use level. The cost per bu moved would be astronomical for most farmers to buy a new EV or conventional semi!

With govt mandates we really dont know wha happens any more, I think a lot of farmers are flummoxed trying to figure out what lies ahead for them in this modern world. Im glad Im old enough I can probably ride things out.

Most of the political mandates from any party at this time seem to be aimed at creating monster sized farm corporations that can afford to use the new expensive technologies and govt grants spread out on many acres. Also very small garden type farms appear to be supported by some govt programs. The typical family farm of today is the one that everyone talks about, but doesnt understand and is the one most in peril of being eliminated from this country.

It is a sad state of affairs.

Yes this is a bit of a political/ emotional response, but Im not all one sided and just my opinion, I hope we can be calm about discussing a real issue and if you feel different than me that is ok we can share ideas not throw bricks at each other. :)

Paul
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Paul, maybe some farmers are "flummoxed" about what lies ahead. I'll bet that it is more like 2 or 3. I think that they would be pretty hard to find.
 
Today's pickups can haul more than dump trucks built 100 years ago.
I'm amazed how things have changed in my short lifetime.
20 hp tractors were the workhorses.
One row corn pickers.
Then picker shellers.
In 1955 dad bought a JD 45 2 row combine
Also bought a JD square baler.
1960 Dad bought his only new tractor, a piece of junk, Ford 6000. A 60 hp Ford tractor was the biggest tractor I had seat time on.

I still live in the country, I don't farm.
I'm amazed to see what today's farmers get done in a half day
may have taken us weeks.
Today I see 3 semis parked along the road when one combine is at work. One combine keeps 3 semis busy hauling grain about 10 miles to town.

I see Mega $ invested in farm equipment.
Makes my head spin just thinking of the investment farmers make in my neighborhood. New Green or Red equipment isn't cheap.

A distant relative owns a trucking company and he spends big bucks on Diesel. I think it will be a matter of economics how fast EV semis are on the road.

I'll bet someday gas and diesel will be priced out of reach by adding a Carbon tax.

One thing for certain, nothing remains the same and change is happening at an accelerated rate.
 
I'm using the 22 year old semi I have and looking at adding my 1991 model for a second trailer to help try to keep up. I would rather add bins space, and not buy trucks or trailers. For the same cost of a semi I can add bins with load outs so I can haul when the weather allows, then haul to elevator when it doesn't.
 
Now that I am home and could look it up it is actually RNG Renewable natural gas made from land fills and animal waste.
Works the same as CNG in trucks made to run on CNG but is a renewable product and has less emissions than fossil fuel CNG.
We already have 20 of these trucks in Texas and ordered 50 more that are being sent to California.
 
Yep.

Lots of corn and beans still back at the farm, and none is going anywhere until truck returns to reload....
 
Theres probably about 12 farm semis in my neighborhood and all of them are at least 15-20 years old with a million miles or more each on them..There wont be any electric farm semis around here for at least another 12-15 years unless they are forced on them..I still dont know anyone that owns a EV period..Our local Walmart has had 3 EV charging stations for about 6 years now and I havent seen a single vehicle use one of them...One of the two local Caseys has a Tesla charging station with 5-6 stalls and on weekends I sometimes see from 1-3 Teslas charging at them.
 
Im guessing in order to save energy, the truck will have LED headlights. Im sure people driving compact will appreciate that.
 
The whole concept sounds cool, but I have some questions.

What's the curb weight of the truck? That's the make or break for profit long hauling. How much cargo one can haul and stay under 80K. A lot of the weight of a traditional tractor trailer can't be helped, even in an EV application. Wheels/tires, final drives, cab, frame, steering components, trailer axles, etc. All of those would still be the same. The only thing different is the powertrain and battery. Does the electric drive and battery weigh less than the approximately 3K pounds of a traditional diesel semi? I doubt it has enough weight savings (if any) to add enough cargo capacity to entice fleets to buy.

What we need to do is rebuild the railroads and reduce truck traffic. Hauling by semi is inefficient, diesel or EV.
 
Many farmers work together.
There are 3 semis that show up when a farmer is harvesting.
I don't know the arrangement they make, but the farmer doing the harvesting doesn't own all the semis. A different farmer's name is on the door of the semi.
The good old boy system of working together still works in my neighborhood.
The farmer a mile away farms close to 4000 acres. Some are leased land.
 
Yep average individuals owning a large farm will become more rare in the not too distant future,folks like Gates,hedge funds and other countries will be the new farmers in the large farming areas.
 
Hybrid semis have been around for a good while and presumably do ok on the local delivery routes where there are plenty of regenerative braking opportunities.

Like most everything else the technology will slowly trickle down to the used markets and become the norm and readily accepted just like internal combustion replaced steam, diesel replaced gas, etc.

Once it's been around a good while the average YT person will understand the technology, aftermarket parts will be available, etc. and the YT may well be an electric tractor and be charged from the solar PV array on the hay barn roof.
 
(quoted from post at 03:53:05 11/29/22) The whole concept sounds cool, but I have some questions.

What's the curb weight of the truck? That's the make or break for profit long hauling. How much cargo one can haul and stay under 80K. A lot of the weight of a traditional tractor trailer can't be helped, even in an EV application. Wheels/tires, final drives, cab, frame, steering components, trailer axles, etc. All of those would still be the same. The only thing different is the powertrain and battery. Does the electric drive and battery weigh less than the approximately 3K pounds of a traditional diesel semi? I doubt it has enough weight savings (if any) to add enough cargo capacity to entice fleets to buy.

What we need to do is rebuild the railroads and reduce truck traffic. Hauling by semi is inefficient, diesel or EV.
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Huge amounts of freight move by rail. Check the daily news. When it is more efficient is moves by rail intermodal. Small quantities to small towns don't go by rail. Large quantities between cities do.
 
(quoted from post at 04:14:06 11/29/22) That usually doesn't work,like several farmers owning a hay baler together.Everyone needs to bale hay at the same time.
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An owner-operator friend with a very big trailer dump does a good amount of corn silage hauling. He does it for probably 6-8 weeks going as far as 100 miles from home for a few days work.
 
What I am saying about railroads is we
need to put terminals in more towns, like
they used to be. That would limit
deliveries to straight trucks, reducing
the need for tractor trailers.
 
(quoted from post at 05:38:45 11/29/22) What I am saying about railroads is we
need to put terminals in more towns, like
they used to be. That would limit
deliveries to straight trucks, reducing
the need for tractor trailers.
Click to expand...


Who will pay to build a terminal that is going to lose money due to lack of business. It is not just a building it is also upgrading the weight capacity of the rail bed to carry three times the weight of when it was discontinued 75 years ago.
 
Over the 32 years of driving semis over the long hauls and many different trucks I probably would quit driving if I hadn't RETIRED ALL READY. that's JUST ME
 
The elephant in the room that no one talks about or addresses, is that fact that we do not have anywhere near the grid capacity to supply the amount of energy required to substitute the energy contained in liquid fuels. Our power grid is at its limits now and NIMBY regulations stifle any expansion. Not trying to start a fight, just sayin'.
 
Agreed. California experiences brown outs and blackouts now just trying to run airconditioners in the summer. Plug in a couple million cars that need massive amounts of electricity and watch the state go as black as North Korea.

Earlier this year they requested electric car owners to NOT charge their cars as they grid was already maxed out - that's with 1% of the population owning electric cars - imagine that multiplied by 50 or 80.
 
Hundreds of trucks unloading each day at local river port and not a truck stop within miles.

Hours (days?) to charge....

I'll pass.
 
True. But the difference today is the bureaucrats are trying to kill off the proven technology needed to fuel the cars.
 
(quoted from post at 07:18:09 11/29/22) The elephant in the room that no one talks about or addresses, is that fact that we do not have anywhere near the grid capacity to supply the amount of energy required to substitute the energy contained in liquid fuels. Our power grid is at its limits now and NIMBY regulations stifle any expansion. Not trying to start a fight, just sayin'.
Click to expand...


No one talks about or addresses????????????? This gets talked about every day on every forum and news outlet!!!!!!!!
 
In 1980 we never had the electric grid we had in 2000. In 2000 we never had the grid we have today. So who in their right mind would think the grid of 2020 is going to work in 2040.

You guys are using the thinking that they are going to build a million EV cars overnight and put them on the road tomorrow. And I think we both can agree that is not going to happen.
 
yep. all a hoax but unfortunately a big one.

if you want an EV because its Green you're being taken. they are not green. with the size of a semi battery i cannot imagine it would ever be carbon neutral..

if you want an EV because you want one regardless. go for it.
 
Well yes and no. Check out https://skepticalscience.com/grid-ev-ready.html, the guy talks out of both sides of his mouth. The capability is there, Stanberry said. The question is how do you get there. Well, if we haven't gotten there, then obviously the capability isn't actually there. He talks about cars sitting around unused 20 hours of the day, which may be true, but commercial vehicles like semis do not, and have to recycle quickly. They cannot sit for 20 hours to recharge, and have their recharging times staggered to fit the requirements of the power grid.

The power grid of 2020 may not be the one of 2000, but it is more similar than you imagine. Increasingly tight environmental standards are making it more and more difficult to build out more power generation and distribution, and solar and wind just aren't reliable 24/7. Solar panels at your residence can certainly help to recharge your personal vehicle, but aren't practical to quickly recharge a fleet of commercial semis or cars. Some of the Tesla chargers are rated at 1 MEGAWATT. Start adding up a significant number of megawatts and tell me again with a straight face that we have to grid capacity to support that.

As the other poster mentioned, you only have to look at situations in Texas and California last year where there were rolling blackouts due to demand exceeding supply, and residents being told to NOT charge their EVs, to know that this is NOT ready for prime time.
 
(quoted from post at 17:32:45 11/29/22) I am surprised there arent EVs competing at the tractor/truck pulls yet
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With the instant and constant torque of an electric motor they would certainly be tough to contend with if outfitted properly.
 
On one of the motorcycle building shows one was
built and the guy driving it could barely hang on it had
so much sudden and constant acceleration!
 
(quoted from post at 15:41:20 11/29/22)
(quoted from post at 17:32:45 11/29/22) I am surprised there arent EVs competing at the tractor/truck pulls yet
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With the instant and constant torque of an electric motor they would certainly be tough to contend with if outfitted properly.
Click to expand...


You can see videos of drag races on you tube.
 
The only way EVs become truly practical is with standardized battery packs and battery swap stations. Sure you can overnight charge your EV at home, but any travel you need to pull into the station and have the robotic system remove your depleted batteries from under the vehicle and replace them with fully charged ones. In and out in under 10 min just like a conventional liquid fueling.

This also eliminates the headaches of battery replacement / life as well since that is absorbed into the overall system. This is a very well established principle, it's what we have been doing with our welding gas cylinders for decades. We don't deal with 10yr hydrotest or waiting for a fill, we just drop off our (owned) cylinder and pickup a full one. We own a cylinder, just not a specific one, and we can readily do the exchange at different dealers as well without hassles.

This system does exist for EVs, China is pushing it a bit, but it needs to be fully standardized and widespread. Same battery packs for all vehicles, just different numbers i.e. 1 pack for a small car, 2 for a larger, 3 for a pickup, 6 for a semi, etc.

As for the power grid, distributed generation is the key there, don't try to transmit the power too far, generate locally. Solar PV on all rooftops, wind farms where viable, hydro / tidal where viable and the key - micro-nukes to fill in all the gaps. All green and all relatively locally generated to power the charging in the local area.

It will take time to get to that point, but that is where we need to end up if we want to go "green". The problem of course is the lack of clear leadership with a realistic vision of where we need to end up and the rational steps to get there, not pie-in-the-sky dreams and arbitrary and unrealistic dates.
 
(quoted from post at 04:59:33 11/30/22) The only way EVs become truly practical is with standardized battery packs and battery swap stations. Sure you can overnight charge your EV at home, but any travel you need to pull into the station and have the robotic system remove your depleted batteries from under the vehicle and replace them with fully charged ones. In and out in under 10 min just like a conventional liquid fueling.

This also eliminates the headaches of battery replacement / life as well since that is absorbed into the overall system. This is a very well established principle, it's what we have been doing with our welding gas cylinders for decades. We don't deal with 10yr hydrotest or waiting for a fill, we just drop off our (owned) cylinder and pickup a full one. We own a cylinder, just not a specific one, and we can readily do the exchange at different dealers as well without hassles.

This system does exist for EVs, China is pushing it a bit, but it needs to be fully standardized and widespread. Same battery packs for all vehicles, just different numbers i.e. 1 pack for a small car, 2 for a larger, 3 for a pickup, 6 for a semi, etc.

As for the power grid, distributed generation is the key there, don't try to transmit the power too far, generate locally. Solar PV on all rooftops, wind farms where viable, hydro / tidal where viable and the key - micro-nukes to fill in all the gaps. All green and all relatively locally generated to power the charging in the local area.

It will take time to get to that point, but that is where we need to end up if we want to go "green". The problem of course is the lack of clear leadership with a realistic vision of where we need to end up and the rational steps to get there, not pie-in-the-sky dreams and arbitrary and unrealistic dates.
Click to expand...



I wonder how my friend has been making it to Florida from NH in two days with his EV. He told me that he had done it five times. Some EV hater must be drugging him so that he only THINKS that he does it in two days.
 
(quoted from post at 08:24:16 11/30/22)
(quoted from post at 04:59:33 11/30/22) The only way EVs become truly practical is with standardized battery packs and battery swap stations. Sure you can overnight charge your EV at home, but any travel you need to pull into the station and have the robotic system remove your depleted batteries from under the vehicle and replace them with fully charged ones. In and out in under 10 min just like a conventional liquid fueling.

This also eliminates the headaches of battery replacement / life as well since that is absorbed into the overall system. This is a very well established principle, it's what we have been doing with our welding gas cylinders for decades. We don't deal with 10yr hydrotest or waiting for a fill, we just drop off our (owned) cylinder and pickup a full one. We own a cylinder, just not a specific one, and we can readily do the exchange at different dealers as well without hassles.

This system does exist for EVs, China is pushing it a bit, but it needs to be fully standardized and widespread. Same battery packs for all vehicles, just different numbers i.e. 1 pack for a small car, 2 for a larger, 3 for a pickup, 6 for a semi, etc.

As for the power grid, distributed generation is the key there, don't try to transmit the power too far, generate locally. Solar PV on all rooftops, wind farms where viable, hydro / tidal where viable and the key - micro-nukes to fill in all the gaps. All green and all relatively locally generated to power the charging in the local area.

It will take time to get to that point, but that is where we need to end up if we want to go "green". The problem of course is the lack of clear leadership with a realistic vision of where we need to end up and the rational steps to get there, not pie-in-the-sky dreams and arbitrary and unrealistic dates.
Click to expand...



I wonder how my friend has been making it to Florida from NH in two days with his EV. He told me that he had done it five times. Some EV hater must be drugging him so that he only THINKS that he does it in two days.
Click to expand...

By spending half his time charging? That's a ~20hr drive, not a 48hr drive.
 
(quoted from post at 06:15:57 11/30/22)
(quoted from post at 08:24:16 11/30/22)
(quoted from post at 04:59:33 11/30/22) The only way EVs become truly practical is with standardized battery packs and battery swap stations. Sure you can overnight charge your EV at home, but any travel you need to pull into the station and have the robotic system remove your depleted batteries from under the vehicle and replace them with fully charged ones. In and out in under 10 min just like a conventional liquid fueling.

This also eliminates the headaches of battery replacement / life as well since that is absorbed into the overall system. This is a very well established principle, it's what we have been doing with our welding gas cylinders for decades. We don't deal with 10yr hydrotest or waiting for a fill, we just drop off our (owned) cylinder and pickup a full one. We own a cylinder, just not a specific one, and we can readily do the exchange at different dealers as well without hassles.

This system does exist for EVs, China is pushing it a bit, but it needs to be fully standardized and widespread. Same battery packs for all vehicles, just different numbers i.e. 1 pack for a small car, 2 for a larger, 3 for a pickup, 6 for a semi, etc.

As for the power grid, distributed generation is the key there, don't try to transmit the power too far, generate locally. Solar PV on all rooftops, wind farms where viable, hydro / tidal where viable and the key - micro-nukes to fill in all the gaps. All green and all relatively locally generated to power the charging in the local area.

It will take time to get to that point, but that is where we need to end up if we want to go "green". The problem of course is the lack of clear leadership with a realistic vision of where we need to end up and the rational steps to get there, not pie-in-the-sky dreams and arbitrary and unrealistic dates.
Click to expand...



I wonder how my friend has been making it to Florida from NH in two days with his EV. He told me that he had done it five times. Some EV hater must be drugging him so that he only THINKS that he does it in two days.
Click to expand...

By spending half his time charging? That's a ~20hr drive, not a 48hr drive.
Click to expand...


Very few people drive straight through, in fact pretty much everyone stops for a night. I doubt that you would drive 20 hours straight or do you? do you wear a diaper? My friend stops for overnight and normal breaks for meals like everyone else. I'll bet that in 20 hours driving you may even have to gas up 2 or three times, or do you have illegal added tanks? five gal buckets on the floor in back? I hope that you have lids on them.
 
Agree on the battery swap idea, but my concern was what if you possess a shiny new battery and they swap in one that is nearly scrap? Or conversely, you have a junk battery and you end up with a new one? Someone, be it the service station or car owner, is going to have to absorb that cost.
 
(quoted from post at 11:16:08 11/30/22)
(quoted from post at 06:15:57 11/30/22)
(quoted from post at 08:24:16 11/30/22)
(quoted from post at 04:59:33 11/30/22) The only way EVs become truly practical is with standardized battery packs and battery swap stations. Sure you can overnight charge your EV at home, but any travel you need to pull into the station and have the robotic system remove your depleted batteries from under the vehicle and replace them with fully charged ones. In and out in under 10 min just like a conventional liquid fueling.

This also eliminates the headaches of battery replacement / life as well since that is absorbed into the overall system. This is a very well established principle, it's what we have been doing with our welding gas cylinders for decades. We don't deal with 10yr hydrotest or waiting for a fill, we just drop off our (owned) cylinder and pickup a full one. We own a cylinder, just not a specific one, and we can readily do the exchange at different dealers as well without hassles.

This system does exist for EVs, China is pushing it a bit, but it needs to be fully standardized and widespread. Same battery packs for all vehicles, just different numbers i.e. 1 pack for a small car, 2 for a larger, 3 for a pickup, 6 for a semi, etc.

As for the power grid, distributed generation is the key there, don't try to transmit the power too far, generate locally. Solar PV on all rooftops, wind farms where viable, hydro / tidal where viable and the key - micro-nukes to fill in all the gaps. All green and all relatively locally generated to power the charging in the local area.

It will take time to get to that point, but that is where we need to end up if we want to go "green". The problem of course is the lack of clear leadership with a realistic vision of where we need to end up and the rational steps to get there, not pie-in-the-sky dreams and arbitrary and unrealistic dates.
Click to expand...



I wonder how my friend has been making it to Florida from NH in two days with his EV. He told me that he had done it five times. Some EV hater must be drugging him so that he only THINKS that he does it in two days.
Click to expand...

By spending half his time charging? That's a ~20hr drive, not a 48hr drive.
Click to expand...


Very few people drive straight through, in fact pretty much everyone stops for a night. I doubt that you would drive 20 hours straight or do you? do you wear a diaper? My friend stops for overnight and normal breaks for meals like everyone else. I'll bet that in 20 hours driving you may even have to gas up 2 or three times, or do you have illegal added tanks? five gal buckets on the floor in back? I hope that you have lids on them.
Click to expand...

I have driven a longer 1,700 mile drive multiple times, ~26hr of driving in three 8-9hr stretches with 10min fuel stops (~30gal fuel) and two ~3hr rest and food stops. My bladder capacity matches my trucks fuel capacity pretty well and a few snacks between the meal stops do fine.
 
(quoted from post at 11:33:16 11/30/22) Agree on the battery swap idea, but my concern was what if you possess a shiny new battery and they swap in one that is nearly scrap? Or conversely, you have a junk battery and you end up with a new one? Someone, be it the service station or car owner, is going to have to absorb that cost.
Click to expand...

This hasn't proven to be an issue in decades of high pressure gas cylinder exchanging. The life expectancy / hydro-test cost is just spread across the entire large fleet of cylinders. Airgas, Matheson, etc. all just take in most any cylinder not obviously damaged and swap for a full one for the cost of the gas with the other costs "baked in".
 
Oh goody!
Can't wait for dam busting on the Snake river to protect Salmon,,, oh wait they make electricity for EVs. Oh well I'll still be glad for brown outs. I'll save big $$$ not using Electricity at home.
Along with EV's won't it be fun to live on Mars too, since they've not yet discovered any intelligent life on Earth!
 
(quoted from post at 08:41:25 11/30/22)
(quoted from post at 11:16:08 11/30/22)
(quoted from post at 06:15:57 11/30/22)
(quoted from post at 08:24:16 11/30/22)
(quoted from post at 04:59:33 11/30/22) The only way EVs become truly practical is with standardized battery packs and battery swap stations. Sure you can overnight charge your EV at home, but any travel you need to pull into the station and have the robotic system remove your depleted batteries from under the vehicle and replace them with fully charged ones. In and out in under 10 min just like a conventional liquid fueling.

This also eliminates the headaches of battery replacement / life as well since that is absorbed into the overall system. This is a very well established principle, it's what we have been doing with our welding gas cylinders for decades. We don't deal with 10yr hydrotest or waiting for a fill, we just drop off our (owned) cylinder and pickup a full one. We own a cylinder, just not a specific one, and we can readily do the exchange at different dealers as well without hassles.

This system does exist for EVs, China is pushing it a bit, but it needs to be fully standardized and widespread. Same battery packs for all vehicles, just different numbers i.e. 1 pack for a small car, 2 for a larger, 3 for a pickup, 6 for a semi, etc.

As for the power grid, distributed generation is the key there, don't try to transmit the power too far, generate locally. Solar PV on all rooftops, wind farms where viable, hydro / tidal where viable and the key - micro-nukes to fill in all the gaps. All green and all relatively locally generated to power the charging in the local area.

It will take time to get to that point, but that is where we need to end up if we want to go "green". The problem of course is the lack of clear leadership with a realistic vision of where we need to end up and the rational steps to get there, not pie-in-the-sky dreams and arbitrary and unrealistic dates.
Click to expand...



I wonder how my friend has been making it to Florida from NH in two days with his EV. He told me that he had done it five times. Some EV hater must be drugging him so that he only THINKS that he does it in two days.
Click to expand...

By spending half his time charging? That's a ~20hr drive, not a 48hr drive.
Click to expand...


Very few people drive straight through, in fact pretty much everyone stops for a night. I doubt that you would drive 20 hours straight or do you? do you wear a diaper? My friend stops for overnight and normal breaks for meals like everyone else. I'll bet that in 20 hours driving you may even have to gas up 2 or three times, or do you have illegal added tanks? five gal buckets on the floor in back? I hope that you have lids on them.
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I have driven a longer 1,700 mile drive multiple times, ~26hr of driving in three 8-9hr stretches with 10min fuel stops (~30gal fuel) and two ~3hr rest and food stops. My bladder capacity matches my trucks fuel capacity pretty well and a few snacks between the meal stops do fine.
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And since our topic here is EVs we know that even though your trip can be made, that it hardly enters into the realm of the discussion of the need for swapping out batteries when normal everyday driving schedules accommodates charges easily.
 
(quoted from post at 12:17:06 11/30/22)
(quoted from post at 08:41:25 11/30/22)
(quoted from post at 11:16:08 11/30/22)
(quoted from post at 06:15:57 11/30/22)
(quoted from post at 08:24:16 11/30/22)
(quoted from post at 04:59:33 11/30/22) The only way EVs become truly practical is with standardized battery packs and battery swap stations. Sure you can overnight charge your EV at home, but any travel you need to pull into the station and have the robotic system remove your depleted batteries from under the vehicle and replace them with fully charged ones. In and out in under 10 min just like a conventional liquid fueling.

This also eliminates the headaches of battery replacement / life as well since that is absorbed into the overall system. This is a very well established principle, it's what we have been doing with our welding gas cylinders for decades. We don't deal with 10yr hydrotest or waiting for a fill, we just drop off our (owned) cylinder and pickup a full one. We own a cylinder, just not a specific one, and we can readily do the exchange at different dealers as well without hassles.

This system does exist for EVs, China is pushing it a bit, but it needs to be fully standardized and widespread. Same battery packs for all vehicles, just different numbers i.e. 1 pack for a small car, 2 for a larger, 3 for a pickup, 6 for a semi, etc.

As for the power grid, distributed generation is the key there, don't try to transmit the power too far, generate locally. Solar PV on all rooftops, wind farms where viable, hydro / tidal where viable and the key - micro-nukes to fill in all the gaps. All green and all relatively locally generated to power the charging in the local area.

It will take time to get to that point, but that is where we need to end up if we want to go "green". The problem of course is the lack of clear leadership with a realistic vision of where we need to end up and the rational steps to get there, not pie-in-the-sky dreams and arbitrary and unrealistic dates.
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I wonder how my friend has been making it to Florida from NH in two days with his EV. He told me that he had done it five times. Some EV hater must be drugging him so that he only THINKS that he does it in two days.
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By spending half his time charging? That's a ~20hr drive, not a 48hr drive.
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Very few people drive straight through, in fact pretty much everyone stops for a night. I doubt that you would drive 20 hours straight or do you? do you wear a diaper? My friend stops for overnight and normal breaks for meals like everyone else. I'll bet that in 20 hours driving you may even have to gas up 2 or three times, or do you have illegal added tanks? five gal buckets on the floor in back? I hope that you have lids on them.
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I have driven a longer 1,700 mile drive multiple times, ~26hr of driving in three 8-9hr stretches with 10min fuel stops (~30gal fuel) and two ~3hr rest and food stops. My bladder capacity matches my trucks fuel capacity pretty well and a few snacks between the meal stops do fine.
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And since our topic here is EVs we know that even though your trip can be made, that it hardly enters into the realm of the discussion of the need for swapping out batteries when normal everyday driving schedules accommodates charges easily.
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The idea of "normal everyday driving schedules" is rather subject to the biases of those using the term, rather like "common sense".

The reality is that the drive some relatively short distance to work, slave for 8 or 9 hours while an EV can charge and then drive home driving schedule is becoming less and less common.

My "normal everyday driving schedule" is nothing of the sort, often involving no driving at all and when I do drive it is more often a relatively long trip with multiple short stops. Possibly within the range of some of the better EVs, but most EVs also lack the necessary passenger and cargo capacity for most of my trips.

I'm not likely to get an EV until I can get one at a reasonable cost that can handle at least 50% of my typical trips. Some of the newer hybrids look to be a much better option, a friend has one of the latest F150 hybrids and so far it seems to be performing well for him.
 
I guess I dont understand if the trip can be made with normal everyday charging schedules, why we need charging stations away from home, and NOT battery swap stations to be utilized by the motorist if he chooses to do so. The design of the car, and standardization (or the lack thereof) of the batteries would be the deciding factor of the feasibility.
 
(quoted from post at 14:24:14 11/30/22) I guess I dont understand if the trip can be made with normal everyday charging schedules, why we need charging stations away from home, and NOT battery swap stations to be utilized by the motorist if he chooses to do so. The design of the car, and standardization (or the lack thereof) of the batteries would be the deciding factor of the feasibility.
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Right now EVs are viable for the percentage of the population with modest commutes and charging station availability at work. For many people only the more expensive EVs with longer range are viable and for still further people they just are not viable.

The automated battery swap technology I noted does exist today and is being pushed to some extent in China. If true industry wide standardization is achieved and such swap stations are widespread then EVs have the potential to be viable for pretty much all transport, including semis.

Again the idea of owning a "storage device" in a pool where you do not individually pay for maintenance or replacement and those costs are instead "baked in" to the cost of a swap for another full "storage device" has been in widespread use for decades without much issues.

Basically EVs are currently at the equivalent stage to the pre-industrial non-interchangeable parts stage. Getting to standardized and interchangeable will greatly increase their mass viability.

I'd be quite happy with an EV F350 DRW if i can pull into a fuel station and pack swap in the same amount of time I currently fill 30gal of diesel. Electric motors provide full torque from zero RPM so they can certainly compare favorably to a diesel engine if properly engineered. Diesel trains are diesel-electric and have worked well for a very long time, even now they have hybrid trains with batteries and smaller diesel engines for yard switcher use.
 
I don't think you are comparing apples to apples. Cylinders are basically zero wear out/maintenance/ageless use damage. Yeah
they get inspected on a regular basis but repairs are few and far between and if it is, its a valve assy and new. Big deal.

I remember when Motorola came out with a modular TV. A new purchaser has a problem and calls a repair facility. The tech comes
out with a suitcase full of modules and makes the repair. Problem is, you never know the origin of the new module and I wouldn't
want somebody swapping a who knows how old module in my new TV. Batteries are wearout prone. Same thing applies in my
estimation.
 
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