Question, where do we draw the line...OT

I just read the post below by JTinNJ and based on the variety of the responses it got me wondering. Just where do we draw the line on how much can be taken from us and under what circumstances, before we get mad? In this case some said in effect it was more or less his civic duty to "take the loss" because it was cause by emergency personel, some said the loss was so low as to not be worried about, some berated him for even thinking about the loss and wanting compensation because someone had gotten hurt, some said everyone was gonna get their part so why not him, and the list goes on. One post mentioned a yard being messed up when a lady ran through it into a pond and not being worried about the damage to the yard. I guarantee the response to that incident would have been a bit different if the lady had damaged a vehicle or a structure on the way to the pond instead of just leaving ruts in the grass. Now I've been on these boards for quite a few years and can tell there are alot of us out there that have and would "give the shirt off our backs" to help someone but if someone TAKES something from us it's a different story. In this case something was taken from this guy and the way I see it wether his loss was $1 or $1000 someone is accountable for it. Problem is no one wants that accountability, thus the crux of his question. In light of his situation and the variety of the answers my question to ya'll is this. How much would someone have to take from you either directly or indirectly before you got upset and demanded accountability? Since I realize that the situation puts a variable in there, under what circumstances would you be able to completely let anyone and everyone forgo responsibility for what was taken from you regardless of the amount, even if it left you hard up and/or pennyless? It's a hard question I know because it makes me think too, but after reading the responses telling JT to just suck it up I'm wondering just how many out there would really be willing let someone, anyone just take something from them and not be asking the same question he is. Personally I work hard for everything I've got and if I can help someone out and give them someone they need fine, but if someone just takes something from me through no fault of my own I'm gonna expect accountability. Even if I can deal with the monetary loss in todays world everything, in any business, ultimately boils down to money, yet in my opinion accountability is still the key.

I have a neighbors son who has been in jail at least twice since he became of age-still lives with his mother next door to me. When he was still in high school, he took some junk plywood that had been sitting beside my house, and built a fort which I could see from my yard. I went to his mother and demanded he return it immediately. Mind you, it had an optimistic value of $5.00, but I knew he needed accountability too. Greg

and then we wonder how we got the government we got and how they feel they have a right to everything that is ours.

I know when the neighbor's cows get into our wheat once in a while Dad lets it slide because it might be our cows next time... now if they destroyed 10 acres or so that couldn't be harvested at all, then some compensation would be in order.

I've cut into neighbor's wheat fields while mowing ditches several times - I always let them know that I did and tell them to let me know what I owe them... they never have asked for anything.

As to the issue of landing a helicopter in a field and destroying some crop - I've been there, I've been the one in the helicopter fighting for my life - and I've had my daughter flown to NICU by one of those helicopters. If those had landed in someone's field and caused any real extent of damage, I'm sure my insurance would cover it... However, if someone needed to land on my crop to save their life I wouldn't think twice - go for it and don't worry about damage.

Personally, when I'm doing [b:d4c271ce53]business[/b:d4c271ce53] with someone, about $5 is all it takes to get me wound up and demanding a refund or other compensation.

What we need in this country to take care of the poilticians is a good old fashioned revolution. Unfortunately all we have nowdays is the vote....

Ya, I don't know. A lot depends on the mood you're in , you're ability to see the big picture, your financial situation, a lot of variables. I feel for the person that was hurt, but also for the guy that had the damage. I guess it really does come down to how much damage was incurred. But then there's karma to consider, or God reaping rewards to the deserving, whichever way you want to describe it. Kind of like paying your tithe to the church. Everyone says they come out ahead for doing so. Maybe by overlooking this and not trying to get something for it he will get more in the end. Maybe a rain at the right time and a better yield overall.

Bottom line, life isn't fair and you just have to do the best you can. Hope all turns out well for everyone, him and the injured person. I will say this, though. I didn't care much for the way his neighbor reacted to him. Sure wasn't very neighborly. He could use a little karma of his own.

alot of it has to do with permission and how hard it takes you to get something.

when you work hard to get something, there is always someone who says who cares, you have a lot, give me some. and those are people who dont work hard.

i am running into same issue on property i own. me and my wife work on average 70 hour weeks to own what we have, but people think they can just trespass as much as they want, cause its land anyone can use it.

it always boils down to have and have nots. have nots want what everyone has but dont want to earn it. and when the haves work hard to get it, its gonna hurt worse when its taken away, cause its personal. the same people who were down on the other person for the damage would kill if something happened to there video game console or their 4 wheeler was stolen.

when i was stationed in afgan, i over heard someone say they had a friend find him a TV that was expensive in a store but would sell it to him cheap, basically it was stolen property. and i mentioned this to him and he said so what, they bought it once, they can always buy another one.

when its not your stuff it always easier to write it off, till it really matters to you. that is why you only look out for you and not give a rats butt about what anyone else thinks. no one else will watch out for you.

people maybe there in a tragady, but not there for the little stuff, guess that is why insurance costs so much and why we even need insurance. cause if everyone was responsible, insurance industry wouldnt be needed.

how can u say unfortunately. a vote is very powerfull, especially when you get it together with many other votes. that is this countries problem, everyone has it so easy, no one does naything to fix it. not voting is like saying i like things as they are, or i dont want ot figure this out, i'll let some else decide for me.

its our job to always question our gov't and to make changes. never liekd the idea of long term people in congress. this country has always been run by poeple 2 generations older then who live in it. america is this way cause WE let it be.

That's fine.

Someone should pay for the flower bed. No farting around. A life is worth it, then pay for it. The flower bed owner wasn't involved, and shouldn't have to shoulder any bills.

Make it right.

--->Paul

The main point in this case was that there was an emergency, it was not a scheduled event. I'm pretty sure the FD and the helicopter service did not purposely look around to see what they could tear up. Yeah, maybe the hayfield was a better LZ in hindsight, but how many times have people done things that weren't the best choice? It's one thing if someone were to do doughnuts in his field, but this is probably a once in a lifetime event. The helicopter probably didn't damage more that a 100'x100' area. I'm sure the guy could deduct it as a loss on his taxes or insurance might cover it (but I don't think there'd be enough loss for a claim). If the damage was malicious, I'd understand someone being upset, even if it was 50 cents worth. But to be upset about an emergency situation doing some damage, is unreasonable.

sorry paul i got a little nasty there but some of the folks tring to turn this into a goverment. cover-up LOL i guess its up to local protocal as how to handle things im sure no one went to the scene with the intention of tearing up his fields . im done im going back to my corner and lay down now

I'm in agreement with john sb..

I'd chalk that up to a unfortunate circumstance beyond my control, hope the guy lives, and then just cut my losses and get back to productive thinking vs fuming over a bed of beans... I think you could safely chalk it up as 'the cost of doing business'.

Life ain't fair.. never was.. never will be.

What if lightning struck the bean field and burned a 100x100 area... you going to bill god? he's responsible after all...

I have a pasture down the road from my house... on more than one occasion people have run my fence down and let my animals out without my knowledge. Still others have stoped and stood my fence up and put my cows in before the 18yr old scared-to-death sheriffs deputy could get his shotgun out of the car to shoot them..... Not my fault.. but I had to fix it.

Before I had animals or a fence on it.. other neighbors who live on 1/4 ac lots inthe areas would buy their kids ATVs so they could drive them on other landowners property and blow donuts and rut things up.. I know who did it.. and saw them.. sheriff wouldn't lift a finger.. I had to fence it... Those that go thru life wanting it to be perfect and fair.. are.. unfortunatel in for a suprise... Remember guys.. this thing we call 'life' is suposed to be more about the journey than the destination...

soundguy

If someone needs to damage something that belongs to a uninvolved person in order to save a life, I say GO for it ,no time to ask questions.

But afterwards there should be restituition for harm done "period.

I think If it was him falling off his combine harvesting those beans, and getting hurt, The cost of the damages would seem minimal. Then if the chopper saved the time that was needed for him to get the medical attention,-- before he might go into a fatal shock, His family Would be happier also.
I don't see crying over a sack of beans is worth a human life.

God gave us the power to forgive as He does,without selfish pride. This was a case of his, to gain for himself, a sense of satisfaction, like "I'll show you whats what"

On the other hand He also gave him a crop and probably an over abundance that he should share in any way that may test his virtue.

The next time could be by flood fire or storms and all could be lost.

I would count my blessings and be thankful that all is well, and someone recieved the help that was needed.

The horse business caused financial stress on the bean business. The responsibility was on the horse business to offer reparations to the bean business. From the comments it did not happen and that is what made the beaner upset.

The bean business never intended to stop the rescue effort. A little neighborly consideration and reaching out by the horse business would have gone a long way here.

Easy to say when its not your money.

Maybe the bean farmer should go over and plow up the Horse Man's yard and call it even

In the local paper, a man wrote in a column, ( the type that you call in and they record what you say then print if ok, it's kind of the pulse of the people ) that he was going to stop paying taxes, period, was sick of the self annointed and centered politicians, and or the do nothing for the people clique, and with the current situation, he's got no choice, which some may not believe, and many of us are not that far behind him.

It made some sense, ok well these people need a swift kick in the butt, and there needs to be some radical changes so something worthy can get done, our governor declared our state economy in a recession already.

Aside from all political discussion, banter, philosophy, and strategy, "We The People...." need to collectively start rattling cages and or start the momentum to make real changes, we need some hungry replacements in there, the ones we have already are fat and stuffed, ready for harvest a long time now ! Now is the time to heave ones sedentary political attitude into the drink and get fired up and start bothering the low end of the political food chain, undaunted until we reach the top !

I think you need to consider this as " a neighbor in need" rather than "one business impacting another financially"- these guys are supposed to be neighbors!
> If my neighbors house is on fire and I empty every fire extinguisher I own helping to put it out, do I bill my neighbor for refilling my extinguishers?
>>> not long ago, my neighbors old dog came on to my property and picked a fight with my 2 lil corgis. My corgi's tore it wide open- $900 in vet bills. I paid 'em even though every court in the land would have laghed their a$$ off at a case like this- because i value my neighbors and didn't want any ill will.
>>> that bean farm is a stewardship- it ain't yours, it's the Big Fellas and you ain't gonna have it for long if you keep on hanging on to it that tight.
>>> heck, the story of the dumba$$ pilot landing in your bean feild is worth more than the crop- you'll be able to tell that one for decades!

Had some comments on another forum from rescue volinteers, they do wonderful work, but kinda seems their is a god-complex that goes with it..... Anything we do is worth it, and we don't need to be accountable for anything.....


Clearly the horse business is the one responsible for this, and their insurance or billfold should be paying for it. If either of them feel the ambulance did something wrong, it's up to them to go after you......

Had a drunk pickup driver hurtle our driveway & land in out beanfield years ago. A whole load of iron, screws, and tools wa in the field, and 20 people stomping around looking for his dentures....

His brother came the next day with a semi & backed in to tow out the pickup.

At least the brother offered to make it right, dad said $20 should cover it. Crops didn't grow as well for a couple years, and was pulling up metal for years.....

But the fellow was fair & offered to make it right, so no problem, no one looking for blood.

Just a little respect.

Years before that a heliocopter landed in our oats stubble and reloaded - herbicide I guess, not sure what they were spraying. Was kinda a wet year, compacted the field in that spot, but worse nothing grew in that spotfor 4-5 years - musta spilled a lot of herbicide on our property.

Don't know who it was, nevergot anything for damages. What if EPA would want it cleaned up, they really are that fussy these days, and it was right visable?

When ever there is a storm, hear on the news, oh it didn't enter any towns, only ripped up farm land and a few barns, so no concern, didn't damage anything of importance.

Saw in the news there was a bear with a jar stuck on it's head, the DNR tracked it & tried to catch it for 6 days, but once it entered a town and was a threat to humans, they shot it. As it wandered the rural areas for those 6 days - I guess rural people don't count as real humans, bear was no concern to those living in the country, only a problem if it entered a town?

All the folks moving out to 5 acre plots, and their kids just love to be 'out in the open' and run ATV's over the alfalfa fields.....

Seems no matter what, rural folk don't count for nothing, town folk can just walk all over us, and we should suck it up & bend over farther, doesn't matter what any of you town folk or nature does to a farm field - they are unimportant and worthless, only there for your entertainment.....

Gets kinda old after a while. In town, a tree gets hit on the bulavard, and it's a major crisis, all the property damage because the tree was harmed. You can bet there is compensation for that tree!

But a farmer's field - who the heck cares, it's just worthless farmer.

Are we really supposed to just be walked on by everyone & anyone All day long?

--->Paul

Traditional Farmer, after reading your posts here I'm going out and buying my neighbors a bottle of Makers' Mark to thank them for being who they are- these old timers on Holly Corner Road would give me the shirt off their back if I needed it, and wouldn't give a damn about the money.

anyone notice that the responses to this issue seem to be drawn in sharply geographic lines?

Interesting question to think about. I had an experience just last week w/ crop damage. I rent a farm from my dad, he has a rental house on that farm. Real low life tenants, been there about a month. Young "man" (term used loosely)I guess he lives there, or just visits a lot. He took my dad's atv from the farm yard, keys were in it, returned it after a little joy ride, no damge to it or. But he did drive it through my corn field, figure 8s and all. Im surprised he didnt get lost out there. I got awfully mad about it. Couldnt find him, probably a good thing. So after I calmed down, I decided to call the sheriff and see if he'd come talk to the "man". Sheriff dropped in a couple of times, he wasnt there but heard he was in trouble. He disappeared for a week cause he was so scared. The moral of the story is, he learned his lesson, thats all I wanted. I figured the loss by walking the trails he made, .13 acres, $1000/acre, total of $130. It wasnt worth my time and effort to try and get compensated. Probably would never get it anyway.
Where would I draw the line? It all depends on the situation. A generic amount would probably be $500-$1000 to get me in court. And then a judgement dosent mean money in the bank with the low lifes that usually are behind this kind of stuff. With an insurance claim, I might submit at less monetary loss.
Matt

Jose,
I wouldn't mind a neighbor like you, even with the horses (;>), but mine are more like Traditional Farmer. Although all the Traditional Farmers I know are willing to help a neighbor with out worrying about who foots the bill and when will they will be paid.

Monday ,the shop next to mine was getting new asphalt driveway put in . Didn't think much about it. That afternoon , shop owner stops in . He says the paving co. had run a big skidloader through my yard , left some ruts and tore up grass. Looked it over,looked pretty bad. I would not have minded near as much if they had asked to drive there first . One of the crew guys was still rolling driveway .He said he'd call in to office about it,and I should do the same. Office didn't want to to anything about it , said ruts can't be that deep. I told them a 10,000 lb loader with full bucket of mix is gonna leave ruts! Where do you live and lets try it on your yard ? lol Foreman came out , yep he agreed. Said operator wasn't even suppposed to be on that side of the building . What can I do to make it right? I told him I didn't know really what to do . He got on radio , called for a smaller roller. Rolled ruts out , also said my yard was kinda bummpy so they rolled entire yard . WOW above and beyond what i had expected .

Ever had your vote NOT COUNT? I did. Voted in a presidentil election while in the Navy back in ther late 80's. The election was over for nearly two weeks and they had already given the election to the "winner" by virtue of the electoral college before nearly 400 of our votes ever left the ship in the mail, and mine was just one of the ships in the same situation we were in. At the time we had no mail service for over a month due to the operations we were carrying out so noting in, nothing out, even if it was something as "important" as a vote for our new Commander in Chief.

I resond with a fire dept and have set-up many landing zone. You DO NOT want to land on a hay field that has down hay on it as the rotor wash from the Helo might blow the loose hay up into the turbine engines air intakes.

Kent

Well I have to make a living off my land farming ain't a hobby with me.I guess it'd be alright with you if when you took your check to the bank on Friday I grabbed a handfull of cash out it? Because when some of my crops get destroyed thats exactly what is happening to me.If I did have to knock down some of my neighbors crop you can bet I'd pay the damages if my insurance company didn't.The horse farmer owner in the other thread should have offered to do the same thing and not even be asked to do it.

Onto the original topic...

I think what caused the stink was not so much that there was a request for compensation. The stink came from 1. HOW the post was framed/worded.. 2. the manner in which the individual went about trying to get said compensation... and 3. that in addition to the description of events, there was an on purpose poke at a certain section of the people that frequent this board (horse owners).

If a week had went by and nothing was said by the neighbor then I think it would be good to go and see what he has to say regarding the incident and take it from there. He didn't.. he went huffing and puffing and demanding hours afterwards. That neighbor has a few more important things on his mind right then. You can do the whole 'oh poor me the farmer, you are stealing food from my chirren's mouth' routine but in reality this whole thing was mainly about timing and attitude. In my opinion he handled it in a very self centered and crass manner. Sometimes you have to think about a little more than yourself. If he had done what he described to me the probablility is he would leave afew teeth short.

I get upset when I am doing someone elses work or not getting what I was told I would. I can understand that this individual would find it fair to be compensated or at least thanked for the use of the field. Funny how a quick word of thanks can blunt the sharpest sword of perceived injustice.

I DO believe that there is a line between civic duty (which I believe use of property to save life and limb is) and wanton destruction of property whether intentional or other.

The situation dictates of course, but I believe that a good dose of common sense and decency is the way to look at things such as this.

VERY WELL worded Wallace! Very well worded indeed!!..........very few people seem to have or do they seem to employ common sense!

People are too concerned about themselves, it's always "I, I, I", they take no time to look at what is going on around them and how that may be affecting their fellow man..................

heck, Gary, the horses stay in the barn- if it weren't for the pretty girls drivin' in every day to ride 'em, you wouldn't even know they were there!
To the untrained eye, I'm in the compost business!

I'm pretty free with my cash when it comes to worthwile causes, TF, so if ya needed some dough I might be there to help ya out- but i wouldn't be at the bank, I do it all by wire transfer.

Frankly, I' guessing (hoping?) that you're a better neighbor than you let on and that those around you can count on you. I'm also betting that if someone rolled into your driveway a day after someone was seriously hurt on your property demanding some compensation that you'd probably punch him in the mouth.

If this was a mailbox, how many have been rebuild and replaced, no matter how inexpensive? Some body paid or did the labor for a $10 mailbox. Seems like he should have the same right for his soy beans.
I think under this current admin/repugs everything is how much you can get away with.

Tell em Jose!! good goin !
The area I come from WE ALL help one another.If there is someone in need, there is someone to help, If it be an emergency we all pitch in.

The selfish ones don't receive as much, Because they don't give of themselves as the rest. Most of us would give the shirt off our backs to a stranger.

I seen this happen when a neighbor took off a fairly new jacket to use for a pillow for an injured person to hold her head off the pavement.
Never ask for anything for it. [It was ruined blood stains]
Didn't know her either could have been one of T/F's relatives but it didn't matter.

We all are rich in what we have, And it don't consist of too much money. A warm outreaching hand will do more good than a sharp tongue.

Crops are between your planting them, caring for them, and God supplying the rain sun and,keeping a hand on the storms so the crops aren't ruined Watching over winds that could destroy you in a moments notice. If you notice He will give you enough back. We reap what we sow, and that is something you can't buy.

If this incident is going to cause a serious loss to this man I suggest we donate the cost of the loss. Shall we pass the hat??