Farmall F-20 Hemi - Gotta See

I ran across this hemi-powered F-20 on Ebay. A real eye-catcher. If I had a boneyard of old cars, trucks, and tractors, I"d have a lot of fun making machines like this.
Click here

Looks really nice,any idea which Hemi it is exactly?By the looks of it I'm guessing it's a late 50's version out of a 300 letter car?

Way back in the early days of tractor pulling, there were quite a few F-20s repowered with Chevys, Olsmobiles, Pontiacs, etc. The concept is not a new one.

I would take those mufflers off and run straight pipes.

The rear end looks like something from a truck, then it's got drop housings each side, final drives ? Looks like something you would see on a high clearance tractor, interesting how that was put together and works.

Almost certain it's an Industrial or "pump Hemi" as known around here. 331 or 354 cu. in. The little bumps on the valve cover between spark plug holes, the exhaust manifolds, and the heavy water pump housing look Industrial to me. The pump motors have "Industrial" stamped into the valve covers while the automotive engines said "Firepower". Used to be an F30 here in NE with an Allison V-12.

Billy, that rear end is completelly stock. Thats how F20's were built from the factory.

I was wondering that, not at all familiar with those, and how in the heck you would fit a truck rear end in there anyways ? Looks pretty good, seems to fit well in there, but I would think you had best remember what is under the hood and what the rear is designed for, kind of like those V8 funk's in 8N's, 100HP, with a 30 HP drive train.

Billy,

You must not be very familiar with anything. Those old flathead Ford V-8"s were 60 horsepower and if you could work every trick in the book a get a hundred horses, those pencil diameter rods wouldn"t last long.

Back in the day of the F20....how much power going to the rear wheels was of no consideration when they designed the drive train. They were built to give weight to the machine and cast iron is cheap. The shear mass of those heavy housings and gears allows those parts to take a lot of power....even though the engines of the day were on the order of 20 horsepower.

I know a man who builds those damned hotrod tractors and has one that dyno"s over 2000 horses and it still uses a stock transmission and rear end.

Billy,

You must not be very familiar with anything. Those old flathead Ford V-8's were 60 horsepower and if you could work every trick in the book and get a hundred horses, those pencil diameter rods wouldn't last long.

Back in the day of the F20....how much power going to the rear wheels was of no consideration when they designed the drive train. They were built to give weight to the machine and cast iron is cheap. The shear mass of those heavy housings and gears allows those parts to take a lot of power....even though the engines of the day were on the order of 20 horsepower.

I know a man who builds those damned hotrod tractors and has one that dyno's over 2000 horses and it still uses a stock transmission and rear end.

Only the smallest V8 Ford made was 60 hp, all you had to do to get a 100+hp Ford flathead was to go out and buy a Mercury.

Those are NOT mufflers. They are CHERRY BOMBS, which makes 100% more noise.

Nope, don't know a darned thing actually, "The dumber a person gets, the smarter they really are."

Really don't know a darned thing about F20's, should'nt have even commented on this one, I forgot that people like to really correct others on this board.

Then it gets into the HP to weight ratio, Nebraska tests etc. and of course the ensuing or resulant "gearhead" style of pi$$ing match about same which is of no interest to me.

Now for someone unfamiliar with these kinds of modifications, tractor pulling etc., common sense would lead a person to consider the scenario that if you modify something and increase the HP drastically, it could be a problem if the drivetrain was not built to handle it, and a person tries to make use of the full HP/torque available from the re-power/modifications. Especially under a load, with good traction. You would think an older tractor like these and others would have a limit before things get tore up from extra HP. This is especially true with track type tractors. Maybe not so true with some conventional tractors, I can't answer that one.

Hold that thought;

I do have a good memory and having been around our ford tractor dealership as a kid for many years, I did learn or experience a few things there and at our farm. Being fond of the hundred series, and thousand series growing up, one can't forget the N's, not all that practical compared to later models, but some of the Funk conversions, both the 95 HP straight six and the 100HP flathead 8BA model V8(one V8 8N was sold by our place prior to us owning it) and other obscure models, combo transmissions, etc/ etc. they even made a crawler, ( not an ARPS kit), amongs other things in regards to being a small time old ford buff, I did recall the quote by Palmer Fossum in the below referenced book. Yeah there are mistakes in that book, one was where they called a selecto speed a selecto shift, most of these books will have some misinformation/incorrect nomenclature etc., but I believe this V8 flathead model engine 8BA was indeed OEM 100 HP, wrong, right or indifferent, can't comment on that.


Ford Tractors N Series, Fordson, Ford and Ferguson 1914-1954 ISBN 0-87938-471-9

Page 118

" The engine of Fossums Funk V-8 is an 8BA, 100 horsepower 1952 Ford Power plant. The man who sold this tractor to Fossum said "Remember that you have a 100 horsepower engine and a 30 horsepower transmission and rear end and you won't get in trouble"
Ford Flathead V8 1932 to 1953

FH Specs

Wikpedia

mark,

You should get the "man who builds those damned hotrod tractors and has one that dyno"s over 2000 horses and it still uses a stock transmission and rear end." in touch with these fellows:

http://www.williamsbigbud.com/bigbud.htm

Perhaps he can educate them on how to effectively transmit more HP through their drivetrain??

Their drivetrain ought to be good for 50,000 hp. or so.............

Just a thought.................

For a man who don't know much, you sure produced a quality counterpoint!! You go, Billy!!

Here's a guy who really enjoyed those old Fords, there was an old timer not too far from our shop who used to restore hundred series and older fords, I would always stop and look at them when done and admire his work, we gave him all the remaining parts from our dealership that were not returned when it closed, this was the largest dealer in this area for 35 years, parts inventory took up 2 floors. Article/Interview with him:


Palmer has a number of other rare Ford tractors, including one that people travel thousands of miles from Canada and distant U.S. states to see: a 1949 Model 8N flathead V8 with a Funk Aviation Co. V8 conversion kit. Only 200 were made and only 14 remain, Palmer says.

Palmer looked in vain for one of those 8N tractors for 12 years. "When you think about how they are scattered across the U.S., the chances of finding one are pretty thin." Yet, chance was clearly Palmer's friend, because he found one mentioned in a small farm auction listing near Minneapolis. Eager to bring home his prize, he stuffed $2,200 in his pocket and told his wife, Harriet, he was bringing home a tractor.

At the auction, he discovered another Ford-collecting friend also wanted the rare machine. The other collector bid, but dropped out at $1,200. Once he was out of the running, he made Palmer promise to bring the tractor to the Worthington, Minn., tractor show the following summer. Naturally, Palmer promised he would. Finally, at $1,450, Palmer got his wish and hauled the tractor home.

"I was determined to get it, even though it was in pretty rough shape," he recalls. "The guy who owned it was an older fella who chewed tobacco and spit it all over the hood, so there was gobs of rust on it."

Two months later after some restoration work, another collector offered $7,500 for the rare tractor. "Wherever we take it, bids come rolling in," Palmer says. The last bid was $20,000. Remarkably, Palmer and his son Loren together now own a second of these rare machines. The tractors are good for belt work, Palmer says, but these powerful engines each create 100 hp, which often ruins rear ends designed for mere 25-hp engines.
Palmer Fossum Article

More Fords

Right about the Ford 60. They had too little power for the weight of the full size vehicles. There was a lightweight racing class that used the 60.
Ford 60

glen,

I haven"t got a clue about those factory guts taking all that power. I took my tractor to him to get the pump turned up and seen those monsters he has in his shop. I asked what he did to the transmissions and he said nothing...we just run them in second or third gear...depending on the track. I never asked anything else. Those JD engines were anything but what I ever seen in a tractor before.

Just not my cup of tea, but to each, their own.

we had a f-12 with a ford 406 in it for blowing silage up a 120 foot ribstone tractor would run 50 mph down the road awsme but dangerouse at the same time

I agree!! Go Billy

Irv*

I have seen hemis on ebay that said Chrysler industrial on the vavle covers I have seen hemis from Desotos with no embossing on the valve covers.The head on these weighs in about the same as a SBchev block. Motor weighs between 650 an 700 something depending on the extended block cast in bellhousing.Its hard to tell much from the pics but if its a 276 cu in Desoto it put out about 180 horsepower.Not the best hot rod motor but definatly one of the coolest looking motors made.A major struggle to move around and handle.The wont even slide on a pic up bed they are HEAVY.Cool Farmall for sure![I welcome any comments on hemi valve cover marking,Share the knowledge]

About 35 years ago there was a classified ad in the Prairie Farmer magazine that said something like "For Sale: Farmall F20 with Hemi V8. Runs well; too fast to plant corn."

I'm building an M Farmall with a 350 as we speak. I post pics when I'm done.

din't the farmall M rean end fall a part when thay added the 500 ser to it? I dont thank they had as much horse power as that Hemi?

Mark, maybe your right about 60 HP old flatheads, I don't know for sure about that, BUT !!! I can tell you this for a fact, those old Ford N tractor trans and rears WONT hold up to much HP over stock and as far as 2000 HP with stock rears and trans, the only way that will hold is if you don't hook it to anything of size and don't get on the throttle. Been there, done that and if you say different prove it, show the motor on the dyno and with stock rear and trans hook it and pull it !!!!!!! Like they say at the starting line, money talks BS walks and put up or shut up!!!!

Calculate the maximum torque that the stock engine provided at 800? rpm and take that figure and multiply that by the correct factor times the rpm of the donor engine and see what that hp figure was. The old engines put out gobs of torque and that is what the gears deal with. As long as you have adequate lubrication, they don't care much how much rpm they see.

after all the arguments, all i can say on your discussion is that in the 70s and 80s in central il. i have seen f30s turned over using factory tranmission and rear end powered by allison air craft engines appx. 2000 hp. at il. certified tractor pulls. this can be verified.

this is what seller told me.

I believe its a 1955 354 cubic inch motor