Local Vo-Tech School Closing Auto Tech Program

I've known about this for several months, but I haven't thought to comment here. The IVY Tech Community College in Sellersburg, IN will be closing its Automotive Technology department in January. Here at a time when we're needing more folks who know what they're doing with these new cars, this school is cutting out the program. When I took classes ther, we used to joke that the only way the program might get any positive notice from the administration on the main campus was if we auto tech students started hanging stethescopes around our necks.

If you look in the Help Wanted ads, the only positions auto dealers are hiring for are car salesmen [because the "usual" response when cars aren't selling is to hire more salespeople] and mechanics/technicians.

The dealership techs I've talked to recently have all said that GM, Ford, and Chrysler have all cut back on THEIR training budgets, so getting a GOOD class with hands-on training is becoming more and more rare, even on the dealer level.

So exactly WHO is going to train our next generation of auto technicians? These days, you can't properly service an air conditioning system without knowing the electronics involved...much less an antilock brake system. Sure, there'll always be jobs for the sledgehammer mechanics changing tires and replacing exhaust systems...but even the tires have electronic pressure-monitoring devices these days which are easily damaged by improperly-trained folks.

It's MY opinion--and that, plus about three bucks, will get you a small mocha "premium coffee" at Mickey Dees these days--that the folks in Indnana's higher-education departments should pull their collective heads out of their azzez and help MORE people learn a trade, not FEWER. According to my contacts who are still teaching there, all the IVY Tech automotive classes have been filling up over the past 4-5 years anyway, so they're NOT being shut down for a lack of demand by the students. In fact, in the fall 2005 semester, they began offering diesel technology classes in addition to the gas engine stuff...so they seem to have been headed in the right direction.

I just think that, in these uncertain economic times, schools like IVY Tech should be concentrating on MORE training for skilled trades, because fewer and fewer grads with business degrees are gonna be needed while this economic mess unwinds.

But they always have the money to fund and expand the sports/athletics department, which is a complete and utter waste of money, if ever there was one.

Not really.

At IVY Tech, the only sports team I ever heard of wa a softball team, and they had trouble recruiting players because the college catered primarily to working adults trying to get an associates degree or a technical certificate. Lots of nursing classes, lots of computer stuff, some industrial maintenance, some basic and remedial English and composition and psych courses in order to keep accreditation for their degrees...but no dorms, no gym, and no regular sports teams.

And in most MAJOR colleges, the athletic departments MAKE money...which is why they're still there. Plus, they bring in alumni contributions to the schools.

It just seems that IVY Tech's administration, at their closest school to the Louisville, KY metro area, is turning their backs on training folks for a necessary trade in our society. The demand for technicians is there, and the demand for the classes is there...but the people in the offices don't want to hear that.

We have the same problem here in Texas. Schools cut out programs. But have football fields that make the NFL fields look like sand lots.

They don't need that many mechanics,cars are a lot more dependable now and throw away parts don't require a lot of training.Anyone can hook up a machine that reads the computer,tells you the problem and what to replace to fix it.They only need one person in the shop who knows what he's doing to manage everything.

The hands on schools for techs have been getting phased out for years by GM at least. They think you can learn it from a TV and computer quiz.

The way I see it is if you have enough computer and electronic knowledge to work on these new cars, Hybrids especially ,than you can work in the computer field and make WAY more money so why bother messing with cars.

I know a couple of people who used to be techs at dealerships who are working at independent shops. Warranty work has dropped way off, dealerships downsized. These guys went from $30 per hour + bennies down to 15 - 20, no bennies.

Back in 82 my daughter went to state in UIL scholastics. My wife and I could not get off to take her to Austin. Finally one of her teachers volunteered to take her in her own vehicle at her own expense. Same year a boy qualified in track. The school chartered a plane and flew him to Austin. These things just demonstrate some of our mixed up values. If you take a close look, it's scary on a lot of fronts.

Do they have the staff required to teach it?

I perhaps have a unique view of this situation as I teach in the tech ed field (including auto) in a high school setting. Many of the same principles exist in both secondary and post secondary programs.

1. Finding qualified staff is becoming more and more difficult. Working conditions in education are becoming worse and worse. Teachers are now being faced with students who are not as willing to try to learn, higher testing requirements, lower budgets, a diminished public perception and salaries lower than equally trained counterparts. Many of us who have the skills needed to teach in the technical areas are foregoing the growing amount of BS in education and moving to the private sector where jobs are less stressful and better compensated. Getting a job in industry with an Elementary Education degree is hard. Finding one with a Tech Ed degree and the knowledge and skill set with which that comes is easy. If I had the desire I could get a job even in this ecomony in pretty much any of the local industries. Finding staff who are willing to take a personal loss to educate kids that want everything handed to them on a silver platter is getting harder and harder.

2. Finding money for education is getting harder and harder these days. Educational institutions are needing to be run more and more like a corporation. Unfortunately within a corporation sometimes you trim not only the fat but also the least productive muscle. Students in these types of programs do not pay any additional money in most cases. Their tuition is paid via the same credit cost as a kid getting a degree in accounting. However the costs associated with running the program are incredibly higher. All that you need to do to prove that is to take a peek at the shop. All that equipment in there isn't free. Some of the unseen costs associated with a technology program include the extra heating for large inefficient shop areas, higher insurance premiums and increased repair costs. Not to mention the increase in pay (in a collegiate setting, secondary we get nothing extra) associated with finding staff as discussed above. It simply costs a whole lot more to train someone in a high skill specialty area than it does in many of the other areas within a school. For example, my high school budget is around $4000 each year (and that is incredibly small compared to many districts). The English, Mathematics and Science departments have an annual [i:d3f210081f][b:d3f210081f] combined [/b:d3f210081f][/i:d3f210081f] budget of $1500.

My guess is this program is just not as cost effective as the other programs and due to budget constraints (read: taxpayer funding) something had to go. In this case it was the auto program.

I am retired from the engine rebuilding business & teach part time a automotive engine rebuilding class at Parkland Jr. College here in Champaign, Illinois.Parkland will be breaking ground on a new auto center late summer 09.They have run out of space in the current building. We also have the Ford Assett & a Ag program. Most of our classes are 14-15 students. Parkland opened in the early 60's.We have 4 full time & 5 part time in the automotive dept.Sorry to hear your school will be closing.Our full time people really recruit the high schools in our district.

The only "machine" that can tell what is wrong with a vehicle system is the one between our ears. Reading codes and changing parts is not a successful way to fix problems.

When I became Buildings and Grounds Supervisor for a local public school district, one of the first things I learned was the School Board and Administration did NOT run the school system. The local sports booster club ran it. In any given situation, what happened was what the booster club wanted to happen.

One time the Voc Ag teacher wanted to take a class on a field trip to Husker Harvest Days at Grand Island, Nebraska, some 70 miles away. He was promptly turned down on the grounds that "transportation would not be available". At the next School Board meeting, one board member, whose son would have been on the trip asked, "When was the last time we missed a sports event because transportation was not available?"

I said to myself, "Good shot, Jim".

The second thing I learned was that to establish myself in my job all I needed to do was maintain a great looking football field. Parents who are totally clueless as to what should happed in a classroom all know what a good looking football field looks like. That was all that mattered.

No wonder our education system is in trouble. And it ultimately falls on parents who have abdicated their responsibility see that the school system their tax dollars is supporting is doing justice to their kids.

BTW, I lasted five years on that job.

When I became Buildings and Grounds Supervisor for a local public school district, one of the first things I learned was the School Board and Administration did NOT run the school system. The local sports booster club ran it. In any given situation, what happened was what the booster club wanted to happen.

One time the Voc Ag teacher wanted to take a class on a field trip to Husker Harvest Days at Grand Island, Nebraska, some 70 miles away. He was promptly turned down on the grounds that "transportation would not be available". At the next School Board meeting, one board member, whose son would have been on the trip asked, "When was the last time we missed a sports event because transportation was not available?"

I said to myself, "Good shot, Jim".

The second thing I learned was that to establish myself in my job all I needed to do was maintain a great looking football field. Parents who are totally clueless as to what should happed in a classroom all know what a good looking football field looks like. That was all that mattered.

No wonder our education system is in trouble. And it ultimately falls on parents who have abdicated their responsibility see that the school system their tax dollars is supporting is doing justice to their kids.

BTW, I lasted five years on that job.

I have heard that many of these programs are going away because all teachers must be college graduates. I can't imagine where one would get a college degree that would provide the expertise to be a vo-tech teacher.

The head instructor at IVY Tech's automotive department was a 28-year auto mechanic, with a bachelor's degree in education, and last I heard he was a couple courses away from his Master's in Vocational Ed.

Indiana State University in Terre Haute, IN offers such a degree. I'm sure there are others.

i,ve been a gm tech for18 years and to this day i have yet to see the tool you plug into the car and it tells you whats wrong. if you think its that easy just come on down to work with me i will show you a few nightmares of what you think is so easy. most of this stuff tday is so engineered it is rediculous. it gets harder every day to diagnois a problem but once you do figure it out yes it only takes a short time to replce the part.

Before this down turn we have now, they've been crying for all kinds of trades people. I went to a trade school for high school and went right into an apprenticeship afterwards. The school I went to had a really good reputation and a lot of employers were aware of this. In the mid nineties they turned it into a regular high school. My teacher said that there weren't enough students interested in the trades. I think they just stopped promoting it as a trade school so they could make it a regular school. My teacher was a very experienced tradesman and also had his teaching degree. He went to teach at my school so he could teach students the trade. It was totally stupid to change the school and my teacher said the gov't. will probably come along and spend a ton of money building another trade school that won't have qualified enough teachers. Not everyone wants to sit behind a desk and a computer screen. Dave

My son is going to Lakeland Jr. College in Mattoon IL. for ag mechanics. Looks like a very good program. Lakeland also has a John Deere sponsored program. Son is doing one of four internships at a Case-IH dealership right now. He has kids in his class from two or three states. That tells me how good it is or how few there are. I hear that Parkland is going to have a Case-IH program next year. He says school and working is the pits but he got up at 5am to go to class. I think he likes it better than he lets on. He is learning about working,bosses,customers,taxes etc. right now. haha Lakeland had a very good electronics program 35yrs ago. We are lucky to have such a good school so close.

I have a Masters degree and have the credential to teach any kind of shop in several states. I have taught Auto, Wood, Computer Drafting, Metal to name a few.
The problem we have is that all schools think everyone is going to college and will graduate.
The truth is only about 15% graduate.
Every time anyone of us retires they close the program.
My district cut about 8% of the teachers for next year due to CA budget crisis.
They are way to top heavy in administration but they protect their jobs.
When no one is left to fix anything they may wake up and realize what they dd away with but I doubt it.

Our local high school shut down all tech ed "shop classes" (I bought a couple machines I learned to run in metal shop at the auction). Then they did a 40 million dollar 'upgrade' of the high school which included a new second gym along with a 3 million dollar PIAA approved football field with astro turf. Funny thing is I see those snot nosed punks and their rice rockets broke down along the road frequently.
I am one of the Bradford County Vo-Tech automotive technologies class of 79'.
The real deal is when I by cars and trucks that are deemed 'too expensive to fix' for a little bit of nothing, then do a couple hours of wrench time and a hundred or two worth of parts then sell them at a large profit. And usually to somebody needing a reasonably priced vehicle that has no clue as to how to fix one.

The over educated intellectuals in my old school board. Took all the welding/sheet metal, woodworking, electrical, automotive, machine shop equipment out of all the high schools in the county.
Then streamed everybody into accounting, medical,legal, engineering, literature, computers, math, physics, history, geography and chemistry.
They didn't want to have any dummies graduate from obsolete, dirty, hands on shop classes.

I am an industrial technology teacher and it is amazing how these classes and programs are being cut. The graduation requirements are increasing in other areas thus less and less electives for our classes. We are fortunate that we still have a program that consists of drafting, woods, auto, metals, electronics, photo, small engines, and screen printing. It is very difficult to find graduates to teach in the discipline. This is my second year teaching, and interviewed in 3 places and was offered 3 jobs. They say in MN there are about 3 openings per college tech ed teacher graduate. These classes are so vital to the hands on needs of our students as well as our country.

Ray,that's the funniest thing I've heard in a while!!!

You wouldn't last a DAY in a repair shop!!