(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

my liability risk

J

james from sedgwick

Member
I am considering letting some friends(who will bring friends I dont know) play paintball in some wooded ground i own. I am not charging them anything for the use just want them to enjoy themselves and leave the place better then they found it. I have heard some of the scary stories of the landowner being held liable for things the average guy couldnt dream of, I want to hear some opinions as to if we simply live in a world where no is the only answer. I will be meeting with an attorney from my area (KS) next week for professional advice. thanks for your input
 
I'd get real legal advice...... Not sure how popping paintballs all over trees and anything else would be considered leaving things better than they found it....

Dave
 
biggest issue with paintball is to verify the muzzle velocity of ALL guns used. Most any chronny will work for the low speeds. seems we used something around 325fps as the max.
guns can be randomly checked at anytime durring play. (some like to crank it up mid game)
Penalty was lifetime ban with notices sent out to all local paintball fields.
 
I would think at the very least have them sign a waiver. I know sometimes they aren't worth the paper they're on, but it's a start.

Donovan from Wisconsin
 
Do what you want but everyone giving in to the "liability game" is the reason this one of the reasons this country is in the shape it's in. If you don't trust them any more than to think you need waivers signed, etc then obviously you really don't feel they are as good of friends as you imply they are.
 
I think you should forget about the risk. I tried to rent a trailer from my local tractor dealer several years ago for a hallowen hayride for kids. He turned me down because of "risk" involved. I borrowed a neighbors trailer, took dirt roads to the "witch Hunt" and kids loved every second. Now I do it every year and those "kids" are bringing thier kids.
Risk? Yep, but there is another risk...you figure
 
My legal advice is see a lawyer as you are doing. He will tell you not to do it, I think.
Suppose someone gets an eye put out on a tree branch, or falls and breaks a leg.
My experience tells me people who do this don't use the best judgement.
 
James, as an Attorney I can tell you that youre already doing the best thing in seeking local professional advice from an attorney in your area familiar with the laws of your jurisdiction. This is an area BEST "NOT" LEFT TO NON ATTORNEYS ON A TRACTOR FORUM. When legal questions are asked here everyone (albeit well intentioned) comes out of the woodwork and offers a lay opinion, which may or may not be correct, and its that "may NOT" which necessitates exactly what you plan to do in seeking professional trained counsel.

Sure, theres always some risk of liability and properly prepared waivers can be one tool to reduce the same. You, as a potential defendant if one were injured, have a duty NOT to expose a plaintiff to a reasonably forseeable risk of injury. Your duty and associated standard of care is indeed lessened since the visitors are NOT business invitees i.e. youre NOT luring them there for the purpose of obtaining gain.

Best wishes n good luck, it sounds like fun, just make sure youre not putting yourself at risk for tyring to help others have a little fun. Im sure a local attorney can offer sound advice.

God Bless yall

John T Attorney at Law in Indiana
 
I certianly do not want to start something, but If I get hurt on your wagon / tractor, or whatever.

I may not sue you, but my insurance company will come after you when they see a few dollars. They will not pay for my disability out of the CEO's bonus ya know.

I'm not pretending to be right here, just a fact that hangs over a well meaning persons head.

And sure you have this magic insurance that covers you, Want to bet on that in most cases?

When you play paintball at the local paintball range, a very large portion is for the insurance.
This is not a normal activity when your policy was written.

I borrow your wagon for a hayride---Are you in the rental business?, hauling humans is diferent than hauling a load of fire wood.

I just got my renewal on my liability policy yesterday for my one horse construction company---man does that take the profits out of few months each year.
 
Find out if the players are all experienced paintballers with the proper safety gear. Someone could get blinded if he (stupidly) plays without a face mask. If you've not experienced paintball yourself, you'd be surprised how hard the balls hit and the bruises they leave.
 
If you have doubts its for a reason. Human nature is such that we do not want to recognize peoples faults, someone in that group might be looking for a fast buck and think, he has all this land -- he must have money. When I take a risk I weigh the possible gain against the loss and if it don"t add up I forget about it.
 
What??..."...Out of the woodwork..."???
Hey, I resent that...(I didn"t say it wasn"t true, I just said I resented it--LOL).
As always, excellent advice; hope everything going well for you these days. Take care. Bud
 
I would put a hold on allowing anyone to do this until... You speak to an attorney and develop a contract of use for your property. Then I would make darn sure I went to my insurance agent and made everything clear to him as to your intentions. I would be willing to bet that A) the release from liability form will be easy to develop. And B) your insurance agent will tell you they will not cover you for a liability claim. Speak to the professionals first, never assume.
 
There are too many variables in each jurisdiction. You are doing the best thing in talking to your attorney. I'd double check with your insurance agent.

Here in Kentucky doesnt mean beans in Kansas. My stepson had an airsoft party at my place this year. Since his mom is also an adjuster for my insurance company we had 'the talk'. In KY you cant waive your right to sue, its in the state constitution since 1890. Also, as long as I dont charge them to play its covered under my farmowners liability, but I would have to be negligent in some fashion for them to have a claim.
 
After I bought my land in 1998 I asked my insurance agent what I should do as far as posting it for no tresspassing and stuff. She said to get 4 signs, (each sign to be at the corners of the land) And this would signal that if you come on this land and do something stupid then it is was posted. If someone gets a paintball in the eye then trys to sue you then say, it was posted no tresspassing......your SOL buddy.
 
My personal inclination would be to let them come. A reasonable person isn't likely to find you at fault just because someone injures themself on your proper. But people aren't always reasonable and there is always a risk of liability when someone is engaged in risky activity and you happen to have the deeper pockets than them. Someone might fall into an old well, or trip on a old fence, etc.

A lawyer told me that although you can get someone to sign a waiver that they won't sue you, an individual can't waive the rights of his heirs to sue.

A few weeks ago here in Michigan there was a tanker fire that destroyed a brand new three million dollar overpass. The state is seeking damages from the driver who caused the accident, the owner of the tanker that burned, AND the owner of a third truck that happened to be in the vicinity of the accident. The driver of the third truck was credited with preventing a worse accident by getting his truck out of the path of the tanker, but that doesn't seem to matter.
 
While most have valid point, It has not been mentioned that many clubs carry insurance for events and that helps the landowner. (IE model rocket antique, engine, tractors.) Could this be the case with a paint ball outfit??? Also some states have a law that you cannot sue landowner for recreation as long as he doesn't charge you.
 
Thanks for the kind words, maybe allllllll these posters didnt come out of the "woodwork" after all but they indeed show up from "somewhere" and are all well intentioned in their lay opinions so God Bless them all, its sure a fine bunch of folks here who try their level best to help others even in areas that really require specialized professional advice. I, same as them, try my best to help when I can.

John T Country Lawyer in Indiana
 
I see a big tendency to just knuckle under to the lawyers and let the threat of litigation rule our lives. One must be prudent, but one must weigh the real likelihood of risk. One of my hay fields is owned by a friend who hit megabucks big about 15 years ago. I thought, well his lawyer won't let me continue there, but my friend made the decision himself and I am still there even with customers sometimes picking up in the field themselves. Let lawyers advise but not dictate!
 
Lets make this real simple. Have a release from all liability made up by an attorney, make lots of copies and have them sign it as they come onto the property. Plain, simple, and safe. I have one for my excavator, cost too much to insure for liability but this allows me to do small jobs here and there and still be covered. You could talk to an insurance agent too, they can tell ya what it would cost and you could charge admission for the cost of the insurance. Too many people scared to do anything anymore due to being sued.
 
I always liked your handle. It reminds me of a Jeopardy game years ago. They had a young lawyer as a contestant who thought he'd hit the jackpot when one of the categories came up "Legal Latin."

He was whistlin' right through the category until he came to "a three-word phrase describing a lack of mental capacity." His answer, "What is in loco dementis?"

I'll bet his parents were proud! ;8^)
 
james, if it were my decision, i would say no. i have timber on both my farms, lots of deer. previous owner let a guy hunt there. he left broken down tree stands, boards with nails , beer bottles and cans, and general trash, not to mention he cut trees and left the debris. my neighbors let some paint ball friends use his timber for paint ball. pretty soon friends of friends started showing up, and they brought their friends. they trespassed on other neighbors property, built little forts and such in the woods, then the beer came out and they opened up a couple cans of stupid. got a lot of the neighbors in a ruckus, cops got called out, and that was the end of that.
 
I wouldn't do that, but you can talk to a good attorney see what he will advise you. It will be money well spent. Hal
 
Joe-Bob,

"Covered" might be too strong of a word to describe your situation. Certainly a waiver is better than no waiver, but it's not going to absolve you from any blame depending on the circumstances. For example, if you happen to cut a utility line that your customer didn't know about, I'll bet the utility will come after both you and your customer.

Life is all about taking risks, but you shouldn't delude yourself that you're protected when you're not.
 
You have already indicated, that the situation will be out of control, when you say "who will bring friends I dont know". Very dumb idea. You will gain nothing, risk much, ruin your land, etc. etc. For What? Tom
 
Yes a waiver MAY help but does not prevent you from getting sued. I run an MX track and riders have to sign a waiver from my insurance provider. At least the insurer would handle any possible claims. One thing to look into is the liability if you do not charge them to be on your land. I have heard that if you don't charge people a fee to use your land and they are aware that they are at their own risk, you should be OK. I was just thinking, as I typed, that this might have some merit if you consider all the skate board and bicycle parks in all the cities that are free to use. Would be worth looking into. Dave
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
CHOOSING WIRE SIZE AND WELDING
2 3
Replies
44
Views
3K
DoubleO7
DoubleO7
C
JD R Pony Engine Question
Replies
3
Views
1K
crashman111
C
J
My Take on the Fires
2 3
Replies
40
Views
4K
jimg.allentown
J
Bruce from Can.
Well I have sold my big round baler
Replies
16
Views
681
Hoofer B
H
B
Questions About Steel / Buildings....
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
showcrop
showcrop
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top