New car dealership rip-offs.....

Paint protection / poly glycoat / paint sealant or any of the other "hi-tech" names they give it : Basically you are paying them $100 + to wax your car a few times. 2. Rust-proofing ( $200 - $400) todays cars don't need it and if applied improperly will actually VOID the factory rust out warrantee. (read your owners manual) Both of the above are usually applied by the lowest paid person (car wash guy) in the shop. ie he don't much care whether it is done right or not. PROGRAM CARS? once called "factory official" cars or other misleading names that don't in any way reflect their true history.(HINT) did you know each factory has their own body / paint shop with anywhere from 10 - 25 full time employees? Wonder what they have to work on being it's a new car factory? Once the dammage is repaired they let a "factory official" put a few miles on it because it can't be sold as "new". Program cars can be anything from these to rentals ,lease cars , parade or event cars , or basically anything but a true "brand new" car. Oh , and I forgot , if the dammage is incurred at the dealership or in transit , the dealership "body shop" repairs it. Big difference is this: THEY are not required (and generally don't) have to divulge this info to the buyer! Even the appliance store tells you of dammage and even gives a discount for it. Our local GM dealer had a test driven car hit in the door by a motorcycle ($3500 dammage) fixed it and tried to sell as new. I know because I went in to make a deal on it just to catch them. It worked! We won't even go into "EXTENDED WARRANTEES" By know everyone must know what a rip-off those are. These are all "profit centers" for dealerships and sales has incentives for signing you up. The one Chrysler dealership I managed a body shop at even made a company policy (internal of course)which stated that any part installed on a car , stayed on the car whether it solved the problem or not. Owner claimed had too much inventory and that taking off parts that didn't actually solve the problem was the culprit. I have worked / managed at several new car dealerships and let me tell you these people are good at what they do. You had better be better at what you do before entering their territory. Most are slick enough that you won't reallize your mistake for months. And then most are too embarrassed to do anything about it. If you are contemplating buying a new (or used) car , try to get someone from that line of bussiness to go with you and ask , ask , ask , don't assume "new" is "new". You don't owe that "pretty boy" with his spiked hair and fake smile the time of day. Put him (or her) on the stand. And by all means don't take "not that I'm aware of" for an answer for ANYTHING! Take a voice activated tape recorder in your purse or pocket when you go. (yes it is legal!) You either have to WIN or you LOSE! There's no middle ground. The choice is yours. Do your homework. This post was generated by Nancy,s post to Glennster about the "poly-coat" on her truck. No tellin' what she paid for it and what she was told it was. Sorry Nancy , when I get going it's not pretty. These snakes are just one step away from Washington. I am not professing to know all but what I have experienced can't even all be wrote on here. There are many of us on here that would probably welcome questions like Nancy,s and others. Preferably "before" the purchase. Dealerships just prey on unprepared customers.

Not to mention these new car dealers offering thier CERTIFIED used JUNK!

Actually recording the conversation with out the other persons knowledge or consent can be a felony in some states, and legal in other states.. wiretap laws... In tx if one party to a conversation agrees to it, its legal.. so you are one party and its legal in texas.. other states you will GO TO JAIL if you record a conversation, so check each state individually.

In my lifetime I knew one honest car dealer, but he died.

No apology needed. I didn't pay for the poly coat. The original owner did. I bought the truck used.

I found the original sticker in the glove box and it said the truck had the poly coat on it. Owner's manual said if it had the poly coat, don't wax it. The sticker price on the truck was $32,000.

We bought one vehicle new and doubt that either of us will ever do that again.

When I was shopping for my truck, I saw new Dodge 1 ton duallys advertised at over $60,000. That's just obscene. Fords & Chevys were just as high.

Commercials advertising new cars/trucks for $6,000 - $9,000 below sticker price should give you a good idea just how overpriced a new vehicle is.

I don't know how people can afford to pay for new vehicles. They cost too much!

You had a bad cup of coffee, right?

Gotta disagree with you on only two things, with the amount NACL (salt) and CACL (Calcium Chloride) they use on the roads in western Ny during the winter. rust proofing does slow down the inevitable rust and on the 4 new vehicles I've bought in my life time the dealer purchased extended warranty has more than paid for itself in the repairs I have incurred during the warranty period. Bill M.

I just bought a used car for 10K. They wanted to sell be a paint protector for 3K! I can get half the car repainted for that money. The tire protector program was $85 a year!

I wont complain one bit about the GM extended warranty! I think it was like 500 - 600 bucks and has already paid for itself twice over on my wifes van.

From starvation?

From starvation?

With cars as with everything else those that do their research and know what they're doing will come out OK those that don't will get suckered.
If you don't look out for yourself don't expect anyone else to do it for you.BTW I have only bought one new vechicle and the dealership went above and beyond anything they had to do to correct a couple problems I had with it.

The reason dealers are allowed to get by what they pull is two fold. G R E E D and politicians.
You see, dealerships have much more money than many individuals. Politicians have passed laws that actually protect dealerships, NOT citizens like they are elected to do.
Case in point. Can anyone read those tiny disclamiers that show up on the screen? Can anyone understand the hyper talking over voice?
It should be against the law for any dealer to add anything to a new car that increases profits unless it is requested by the purchaser.
What they do is add several "upgrades" like the rust and paint protectors. They mark them up exponentially and create an "adjusted MSRP" which should be illegal. This is what they use to "deal down" when a customer wants to deal. So, they are not giving up anything other than excessive profits on items that are not wanted or really needed.
There are several levels of "price" on most vehicles. "MSRP", "dealer cost", and the true price that they actually pay. Most dealers can sell EVERY vehicle at delaer cost and make a very good living. They get hold backs and all types of incentives everytime the sell a vehicle.
It"s not the dealer that deal straight that typically go out of business. It is the ones that screw everyone and the word finally gets around enough that folks do not step on to the lot.
They sell it, or change the name and start over.

Glad you're such an expert on what a ripoff car dealers are. I worked in the parts department of several dealers over the past 30+ years, so I can tell you the TRUTH about what's going on there.

The "fabric protector" or "paint protector" packages are, as you say, usually done by the washrack guys...usually the lowest-paid personnel in the dealership. Last dealership that I worked for that "sold" these packages had the paint protector and fabric protector applied to EVERY vehicle...but paying fot the package was often negotiable. When you push the F&I [finance and insurance] guys to the mat, they'll usually yield on paint and fabric protection.

Rustproofing, on the other hand, depends on just what the dealer is selling as "rustproofing." Find out what's included, what's not included, and how the program differs from factory antiperforation rust warranty. Once you get them talking that direction, you'll probably find that the add-on rustproofing isn't worth the added expense...again, something that might be negotiable in F&I.

Not ALL extended warranties are junk...but MANY are. The ones offered by GM and Ford are legitimately run programs, while many of the aftermarket extended warranties aren't worth the paper the contract is printed on. Often aftermarket warranties require "inspection" of mechanical breakdowns by their own "inspectors," slowing down your repairs for up to a week while the inspector tries to find a way to deny paying for your claim. GM and Ford extended warranties, on the other hand, are administered the same as new-car warranties, and are considerably less hassle...although you may have to pay a deductible for each occurrence.

As with any other big-ticket purchase, DO YOUR HOMEWORK and you'll be fine. Don't pay for something you don't want...simple enough.

As far as unsatisfactory repair work...if the vehicle isn't fixed, especially if it's still under warranty, LEAVE A PAPER TRAIL. Get all complaints in writing on a repair order. And if you can't duplicate a complaint when the vehicle is in the dealership, odds are the technician won't be able to duplicate it, either...and it will remain unrepaired. Note the circumstances when the problem occurs...cold start, hot start, at a certain engine or vehicle speed. The more details you can give the technician [via the service writer], the better the chances he can fix your car right the first time...and FRFT [Fixed Right First Time] is tracked, at least by Ford.

Hope this clarifies a few things. Most dealers realize that, without repeat buyers, they're dead in the water...so screwing folks over the first time is self-defeating in the long run. But some dealers don't care; to them, customers are like buses, there'll be another one along soon to replace the one who just left. Ask people you trust about a dealer before you ever spend a cent with them. Today, MOST dealers are all about building long-term business relationships...but not all are. Do your homework.

In my area with our harsh winters and the use of salt or other ice melters, rust protection is a good idea. I have not had it personally but I know folks who have and would swear by it. Trick is to get it done as soon as possible when the vehicle is new. Then you need to have it done every year after that. I'm sure they are not all created equal and I don't think I would ever have it done at a dealership. There are a few reputable places to have it done and they actually give you a guarantee against rusting.
The factory "anti perforation" warranty is a joke anyway. I believe it is 8 years, or at least it was when I bought my last new vehicle and when I say my last, I will not be doing that again! The truck had a few fairly bad rust spots, all of which were very typical of trucks that age even though I kept it very clean. But because there were no actual rust holes the dealership wouldn't do a thing about it.........because they know that it takes 10-12 years for a hole to develop. How nice to warranty something you KNOW will never go in the time frame it is warrantied for!

I've always said, any salesman will s$%#w you over, a good one will s$%#w you over but you'll walk out of the dealership with a smile on your face...........and you'll likely thank him for it!

Pretty amusing listening to new vehicle dealers whine. $60 grand for a new pick up? The local Dodge dealer has 2 on the lot now (and sounds like he wishes he didn't). Granted the Marcellus gas business is king in this area and if you don't drive a diesel duelly something your nobody.
I cannot justify spending that kind of money on anything that will loose 1/3 of it's value the minute of purchase. $6,000 to $8,000 rebates tell me one thing that's about 1/3 the company's margin.
Bankrupcy has 2 meanings. For us little people we open our wallet expecting we have $20 and it's empty, We are broke. For most if not all companies, they are 'budgeted' to have $20 in their wallet and open it to find only $19, They are loosing money and headed for bankrupy, bailouts, golden parachutes etc. I'll continue on with my old truck as long as I can, hopefully long enough for some of these $40,000 to $60,000 trucks to become $4,000 to $6,000 trucks.

Actually its legal in nearly most states - in a face to face conversation. Its not nearly so cut and dried on phone conversations - in about half of the states you have to tell the person they are being recorded.

http://libertymaven.com/2009/04/09/know-the-law-secretly-recording-your-conversations/5233/

I once spent ten years as both a Claims Adjuster and Claims Analyst for what was then one of the largest aftermarket service contract providers in the country. I'm now helping to liquidate the company.

What brought it down? Pure greed on the part of dealers and repair shops. Every dealer and scam artist in the country thought they were going to get rich at our expense. And the large, franchise new car dealers were by far the worst of the lot. They knew the manufacturer would never get down on them because they moved too many vehicles.

I could write a book on the experience, and I may sometime. I caught a Chevy dealer in Mississippi installing a used engine in a pickup after I'd authorized $2700 for a new Goodwrench engine. I caught a Dodge dealer in Texas wanting $3900 to replace the engine in a full sized Dodge van when the only problem was a $200 injector. I caught a Dodge dealer in Colorado installing a 90 day salvage yard transmission in a Dodge Intrepid after I'd authorized $1700 plus labor to install a Chrysler reman unit with a 3 year, 36,000 mile warranty. And this was all in the same day. We Adjusters, and there were 60 in the company at one time, used to talk among ourselves that considering what the dealerships and repair shops tried to do to us, knowing we were professionals, it was mind-boggling what they must be doing to an uninformed and unsuspecting public.

One Adjuster of ours once took a claim call on a transmission failure on a particular vehicle. The shop said the car was on a hoist with the trans removed and disassembled. Our Adjuster called the owner of the car and said he'd like to ask a few questions about his transmission failure.

The owner replied, "What transmission failure? I drove the car to work this morning and it's parked outside my office right now". The whole thing was a flat out scam. The shop had a slow day so they pulled a contract at random and called in a transmission claim.

I once took a call on lifter noise in a Dodge Caravan. I noticed the van had only been sold a month before, so I called the owner and asked if he had heard any noise when he test drove it before he bought it. He said he couldn't tell, the salesman kept the radio turned up too loud. (Smart salesman).

We finally had to put a clause in our contracts that the total of all claims on a vehicle could not exceed the then NADA wholesale value of the vehicle prior to the most recent failure. Otherwise dealers would try to rebuild all the junk on their back row at our expense. They'd sell a junker for $2000 and run up twice that in claims within the first couple of months.

I'm out of time at the moment, but I'm convinced that everything negative and derogatory that has ever been said about the automotive business has been grossly understated. There are some real slimeballs out there. And that includes most of them And the only way it's going to straighten out is if the public educates themselves enough to refuse to put up with it. And that's not likely to happen.

Program cars are assigned to individuals that are employed by the company. At GM, it was either 3K, 6K, or 12K. Some of these cars are then torn down, and parts measured for wear. I used to do the measurements. The rest are offered for sale at a discount, varying by mileage. If there is any damage, it gets destroyed. Parts are never reused. For example, if a worker drops a screw during assembly, he cannot pick it up - he must get a new one.

As for what a dealer charges, he charges what the market lets him - it's called capitalism. he charges too much, he goes out of business. He has to charge enough to pay a decent wage to the employees.

Very well said. It's amazing how many people complain about companies making a profit.

S.crum, About car and truck prices, If they are going to give you back 5 or 6 K than it tells me it's over priced to start with. So if you buy it and you get the 5 or 6 ,They are getting exactly what they want for the car or truck.Try to take off the 5 or 6K first and than try to make a deal,It'll never happen. This "Cash Back" is the biggest scam out there,how stupid do they think we are? I could go on but, Just be smarter than them!,,,Jim in N M

I might not call that greed. I'd call that criminal. Greed may have been the driving force, but the end result was fraud.

I hope you were reporting those people to the authorities? If not, someone might say you were greedy for not doing so, in order to keep your business afloat.

So the dealers and politicians are in cohoots?

Try telling that to the 2000 GM and Chrysler dealers that were forced out of business last year.

My experience with claims inspectors for aftermarket warranties hasn't been exactly positive. The often didn't want to pay for gaskets or other REQUIRED repair parts. They wanted the dealer to sell them the parts for DEAD COST, and sell the labor at or near cost as well. Now, if you take the profit away from the deaer on parts AND labor, where's the incentive for the dealer to honor your warranty?

I didn't have a problem dealing with the aftermarket companies that would allow the dealer the same markup on parts that the factory warranty paid...or the ones who would pay at [or even NEAR] the factory warranty labor rate. But in some cases, the extended warranty folks would put the CUSTOMER in the middle...making the CUSTOMER liable for teardown costs until the inspector got off his can and viewed the engine or transmission.

None of the dealers I ever worked for tried to scam the warranty companies. We just wanted what's fair...and I suppose in today's market, that's something rare.

In my years working at a new car dealer, I had found two things that I did not agree with in the selling of cars. One was the aftermarket warranties. We would have vehicles with a problem like the Dodge trucks with the corporate axle that would have a rear end whine in them. The sales person would sell them the after market warranty and tell them to bring it back in a couple of weeks and complain about the whine and the warranty would cover it. Of course the warranty company would come out and look at it and say that it is not covered due to it being normal wear. Then we the car dealership would have to eat the repair due to the sales person. The other is these car inspections. The one dealership I worked at really pushed that they did this 60 point inspection. Well they did a 60 poiny inspection like they said, they just didn't fix anything that they found wrong.

On any legitimate repair, we never hesitated to pay the full price of the repair, the same as if we were the customer without a contract. (There's a difference between a warranty and a service contract).

HOWEVER, with experience, we knew which shops would play it straight and which ones would try to honk us. There was a gal in a large Olds dealership in Las Vegas that would come up with all sorts of off the wall stuff, and if you called her on it she'd shrug and say, "Oh well, I tried". Those were the kind that got hassled and nitpicked.

Reread your post. I think you contradicted yourself.