Vehicle buying

There is another thread on Dealer Invoice below that is getting long.
Think of it this way, the dealer is or has financial experts trained to know how to juggle numbers and create instant but false relationships. They do this many times a day, everyday. That is who the average consumer is negotiating with. The average consumer only gets to do this once every few years at best. Who do you think will win that game in almost all cases? If you think you won, oh well. I have some swamp land that needs a new owner.
You have better odds sleeping with a rattle snake than ever beating a dealer unless you really do your homework and do not get caught up in the drama and ego of having to have a certain unit. They have many ways to "prove" to you that by golly you beat them up so bad they did not "make a dime".
Think of it as a magician's hat trick where they place an item under one of three hats, and then move those hats around while entertaining you, bragging on you or your family, serving you food like BBQ, hot dogs, and creating fake drama about anything that will divert your attention from the real price. Good luck on knowing which hat to lift. LOL

Yup. You're challenging the dealer to play his game on his playing field. He plays the game all day every day and you play it every couple of years.

It's like a little league football team challenging the Denver Broncos to a game of football in Mile High Stadium.

Yea, we bought a used car 2 years ago at a dealer. It looked nice. I told the salesman that there was a tiny chip in the windshield- like a BB chip. Not really in the way. So a couple days later, we had gotten our money, signed the papers and paid. As the salesman walked us over to the car, he says "they even fixed the chip!" He left us, and I went over to look at the windshield. They had NOT fixed the chip. I guess he thought he wasn't doing his job if he didn't lie to us at least once. Other than that lie, it had been a perfect car buying experience for us.

I used to think that being a used car salesman had to about the lowest profession on earth, but I have now decided that they are a credit to tele-marketers.

Bottom line is this....unless you have to have a "NEW" vihicle there is absolutely NO reason to buy from a "dealer" and if you do you get what you get. Where do you think a "dealer" gets his used vehicles?? From the original owners who got suckered into buying new at one time. There are internet sites , paper classifieds , word of mouth and many other ways of "shaking the bushes" so to speak to find the vehicle you want from a private owner if not the ORIGINAL owner. People are just down right lazy and want a dealer to do all the leg work for them and then $itch about the deal they got. Do your own leg work and let the "dealers" play their games amoungst themselves or whatever suckers they can find. Most of the crap they have has problems anyway and that is why they have it in the first place. There's no money to be made on a "good" vehicle because they can't buy it cheap enough. "Buy them cheap , get the check engine light out , put on new tires and find a sucker".Professional @ss holes they are.

This really bothers me. I live in Indiana and granted, things are different around this country, from region to region but, around here business is based on relationships. Lying to customers does not build relationships.
I am the Sales Manager at a new car dealer and have been fighting the stigma for 10 years that all car people are liers. Before my time there is no question that folks were getting lied to but, that just doesn't happen anymore. At least not around here. I will admit that I do see questionable pricing in adds that even make me cringe but, once again, the facts are in the fine print.
I always hear that dealers play games and you can't beat them. See if this makes sense from a business prospective. You sell a $49000 (MSRP) SUV. Nobody pays sticker right? Invoice will be about $45500. Then you subtract rebates. Where is the dealer profit? Really! You sell a $49000 SUV and you make $1200 (avg gross in my region)! How does that make sense! That is a 2.5% return on investment. How many business owners in there right mind would take that risk? What do you think Walmart, McDonalds, etc. ROI is?
Trust me, if I take advantage of you, you will never buy from from me again. If I give you a good deal, you will buy from me over and over again.
BTW. Most windshield chips remain very visable after they have been repaired. They are filled with a clear resin to prevent this break from spreading. Maybe your salesperson wasn't lying. Shouldn't assume.
Dave

Once when I was an independent used car dealer, the president of our bank told my wife I was too danged honest to be a used car dealer.

He must have been right or I'd still be a dealer.

Used to allow them one lie and I was gone. Nowadays have to allow them about 5. Had a preacher friend that tried to sell cars. He was so honest he had to quit. True story from Mich. Dave