Help on Hydralic on JD 50 here is the plumbing picture Mike

aHere is a picture of the way the loader is plumbed in. It has worked for two years with no problem. Replaced O ring on rocker arm lift still will not work ANY SUGGRSTIONS APPRECIATED.
Going to include a note from son as to what went on.
Here is the picture of the backend, showing how the loader is hooked up.



This problem first showed up with the 3 point windrow turner. Basically the rock shafts would not allow the 3 point arms to stay up. Eventually, just for expediency and to finish the hay season, I pulled off the 3 point arms, so that they would not drag on the ground. When we finally got around to feeding round bales this winter (a couple of weeks ago), Bryan and I put the loader on the tractor. (please note that the cylinders on the loader have been gone through and refreshed) Interestingly enough I had no problem with a “cold” tractor and the first bale. Went and lifted it up, drove down the lane and dropped it in the hay ring. When I went to get the second bale, no joy. The loader would not even lift the bale. Basically the tractor was up to its old tricks, and the rock shafts and the loader would not stay up. Nor would the loader pick up the bale. I also noticed that the loader would not lift (empty) if the control lever was in the “fast” lift position. It only goes up when the control lever is in the “slow” position, although the “slow” position seems fairly fast. The drop rate does not change when I move the control lever to the “slow” drop position. The drop rate does speed up dramatically in the “fast” drop position.



To date, we have replaced the backing ring (paper) and o-ring on the piston in the cylinder. I did not see any rust or signs of water in the system. I did notice some small amounts of “goop” down in some of the lower nooks when we took the valve assembly off. Other than that the parts I looked at seemed clean. As the picture shows there some seeps and weeps on the tractor, plus sloppy filling procedures. Anyhow, I am still hoping this is something simple, like a chunk of dirt/goop in a check valve.






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Gitrib - a foolish question - are you aware that you change the Powertrol plugs to switch from rockshaft to external hydraulics?

My 50, and looks like yours too, has a plug with a knurled removable cap, with a smaller knurled knob under the cap. I have to turn the smaller knurled knob to switch between to two.

I apologize in advance if you already know this (and I think you do).

Paul

If you do have the plug with the cap and inner adjustable part it would be placed into the upper hole on the back to work correctly.

As it is I would remove your quick coupling from the top rear and put it on the top side. and then use 2 blank plugs ( not threaded for hyd. hoses ) in the rear ports. If you do have one of the selector valves with the cap and inner adjustable part put it in the top hole on the rear and a blank plug in the bottom hole on the rear. Hook the hoses so when pushing the lever forward the loader raises and when the lever is moved rearward it lowers. I can't remember off the top of my head which port is which ?

Mike it is funny we have used this plumbing for two years and it has always worked. Thanks anyhow,
gitrib

Craig will check this out tonight. Do not remember doing this. Thanks
gitrib

Ok, I think everyone is missing a key point and getting hung up on the front end loader. The system behaves the same way without the front end loader. For example if I install the lift arms back on the rockshaft and go hook on to a 3 point implement, I still have the same exact problem. What I found curious was that when I did put the front end loader on the tractor the hydraulics worked one time and then it went back to "sagging and dragging". This leads me back to either the check valves, releif valve or pump. My hunch is that one of the check valves has an issue.

I'm afraid you blew the rockshaft cylinder gasket on the inside of the rear-end housing. Your gonna have to take the powertrol and rear end housing off, and then there's 4 bolts that hold the 'cylinder' cap on. My 60 acted the exact same way, and i didnt want to believe it was that gasket, so i went thru every check valve, every o-ring, changed the packings to the rockshaft, etc. But in the end, i changed that gasket and it fixed it. Really wasnt that big of a project after all. Kinda wished I'd done it sooner.

Not saying that it won't work ,just saying that's not how it is to be hooked up by the book.
Following the book usually ends up with better results.

Hope you are right,it is coming apart tonight. It makes sense as it had always worked. Son remembered taking a tote of liquid fertlizer off of trailer the last time he used loader. It lifted it but was a load. Loader had not been used since so possible that is when it blew. Will let you know.
gitrib

What make and model of loader? I have a JD 45 on a 50 tractor and the manual says the loader will lift 2150 lbs. How heavy are the round bales? Maybe their weight is more than the loader can lift safely. I"ve not been around the big round bales so I don"t know how heavy they typically are.

Round bale weight OK [probably that tote of liquid fertilizer.
getrib

SM2011 this is the service manual needed for that unit. Alot of VERY good info in it.

Mike I have it and several others put out by JD. The shop manual for dealer, the operators manual,the parts manual and shop manual on Power-Trow. They are all pretty complete. They got it stripped last night ready to lift off tonight. Thanks
gitrib

I'm trying to remember how exactly but..... Some people when using a semi mount plough on those tractors.They have the hydraulics valved to both the rockshaft and the remotes at the same time.
Instead of only the remotes or only the rockshaft.
If the seals fail on the rockshaft piston, the remotes won't pickup the back of the plough.
I'm wondering if somehow the rockshaft isn't isolated from the remotes at the moment?
Is the loader plumbed into the side or the back of the Power-Trol housing?

I am leaning towards NW MO Poppers suggestion on the gasket between the cylinder and the housing. I will know for sure this evening as I will have it all pulled apart.

Couple of quick notes. The loader is a symptom not the problem. It is not normally on the tractor and I was having problems with the three point staying up prior to putting on the loader. The loader is the original 45 factory made loader with manure forks. The way the loader is presently plumbed does allow for rock shaft operation. The round bales are 4x5 native grass bales. Not a lot of weight. As Dad (gitrib) has pointed out I did get stupid last spring and I unloaded three 2800 lb totes of liquid fertilizer with this tractor. That probably was enough stress to weaken that gasket between the cylinder and the housing. Subsequent use of the three point hay rake was probably enough to finish it off. I generally don't abuse this tractor, it is my first restore, it's main responsibilty is to go putt around the alfalfa patch and make little square bales. I have to admit that I have been more than suprised at what this little tractor can do.

You were right Gasket on cylinder blew. New ones will be here Saturday. Thanks all of you fellow.
gitrib & Son

glad you found it. my 60 did the exact same thing: started sagging all at once. gasket was probably original, so you probably wont have to do it again