Incomplete tractors, supposedly restored.

I sometimes see tractors for sale or shown in parade photos and the tractors are incomplete.

I'm referring to the Allis Chalmers G model which is often shown without the implement attachment and lift mechanism.

Why do they leave the tractor incomplete and entirely worthless as a usable tractor? Trailer Queens for sure.

Akin to doing restoration work on a '65 Mustang and leaving out the seats or engine. Useless other than something to look at and wish for more.

Just sounding off a little I guess. Saw one advertised by a dealer but was useless since incomplete.

I saw an Oliver 77 on a CALENDAR one time that was so cobbled and incomplete it about made me sick. Don't know how that one was ever considered calendar quality? To each his own I guess.

That is why I have learned to hate the term restored because few really understand the true meaning of it. Sort of like last fall at a car/truck/motorcycle/tractor show a guy had a truck there that he said was original but it had after market valve covers so there is not way it could be original. I.E. Toe restore is to bring a machine back to what it was the day it rolled off the factory floor.

My brother says he'll never restore another car or truck. Said if he wants one,he'll buy one already done. Said if he does one himself,he knows every nut and bolt that isn't right and it drives him crazy. Says if he buys one already done,what he doesn't know won't bother him.

It depends on what you want really. My dad has a John Deere D that I would like to restore. At some point somebody changed the front wheels to solid rubber truck tires. Not sure if it's the same person or not, but there is a big spring connected to on front wheel. I guess it was supposed to help stay in the furrow while plowing or turn around at the end of the field. If I restore it I'll keep those modifications.

Im not that persnickety about implements and attachments because I know some are real hard to find,and priced way too high when you do.Id rather see a machine that is functional again and not sitting rusting away any longer,those other details can be completed when you finally find the stuff at a later date.The ones I really dont like is when every bolt has been chromed,or guages have been painted over,or a new seat that it did not come out with,or incorrect lights,or overspray on tires.I think those are true details to a good restoration that should not be overlooked,but with that being said,sometimes updates are nice if you use it also.

Ever tried to load an Allis G on a trailer with a mounted cultivator or other implement under it?

You need a GOOD ramp setup!

I kind of agree but I also think that it is funny about how many of these tractors are in better shape than the day they where new. Ever see a clear coat paint job in 1940???? How about a good riding seat?? Yes some people really are out there with tractors that are not restored very well, but I would much rather see that than them being sent to China for scrap.

I also get real mad about the SNOBS that just like to pick apart any tractor that has been redone. My thirteen year old grand son redid a 1952 JD "A". He did ever single thing on that tractor him self. My son and I used it to show my Grandson how to do things. He is real proud of that tractor. We took it to a few shows last year. A guy that is in the TWO cylinder club came by and spent ten minutes picking apart the tractor. This was wrong and the paint sucked. My grand son was in tears. This was not a big fancy show, just a little old get together to have fun. I got right in that A$$holes face. I used to like going to some of the two cylinder stuff. Not any more, they have priced them selves out of the market. Also I don"t have time for these snobs. They will not get one dime of my money. I will have the last laugh when there are not any more young people left that give a D@mned about their green tractor.

Okay, I know I'm going to catch it but I'm going to weigh in on this one. Decide what restoration means to you and restore your tractors the way you want. Let the criticism go in one ear and out the other.
I'll use my farmalls as an example. Is a restoration job on my H going to be considered incomplete or incorrect if the pulley is not on?. What about the roller in place of the flat plate on the swinging drawbar?. He came with radiator shutters that have long since been removed. Does that make him incomplete?. What about the front mounted hitch plate?. Or the two steel plates that move the fenders out?
Can't we just be happy that someone is taking care of these old tractors rather than sending them to the scrap yard?
My 2cents

My dad did that with a Fordson. He put a spring on the right front wheel with just enough pressure to hold it against the left side of the furrow.

That way he could sit and look around the countryside, or whatever, from one end of the field to the other.

I'm with Old Geezer and JDseller on this one. Everyone is allowed to do his own tractors and equipment to whatever level he or she is happy with. Anyone else who is not happy with that should keep their thoughts to themselves. What happened to JDseller's grandson is entirely uncalled for! We wonder why young people are not into this hobby--that is one reason!
I enjoy the perfect restorations as much as the next guy. And I'm also just as good as the next guy at picking out the things that are not "correct". But I try and keep those observations to myself unless I am asked.
As long as the individual owner is happy with his tractor and is having fun with it, that is the ONLY thing that matters! And the correct police need to remember that!

I think old tractors are a lot like wives.
Why a man loves her and keeps her and how he does it isn't any concern of mine.
Of course some of them I'm sure glad they belong to someone else. But that's a topic for another discussion...

Over the years this discussion has come up quite a bit here, appears to be a difficult one to resolve, or come to some conclusion as to what the definition of "restored" means. I always wondered why all the clubs, associations and what have you never worked together to standardize the different methods these old tractors are maintained, repaired, or overhauled.

You can go from unrestored original in working order, field ready to above and beyond what they were like from the factory, (modern paint systems, clear coats etc.)

Anyone can look at a tractor they have and decide what they want to do, complete dis-assembly,clean, rebuild, replace and so on, a complete overhaul and paint job, focus on factory correct, though all these years later, aftermarket parts etc. very hard for me to buy that, somethings you can't get, just aftermarket or whatever, tractor will still look awesome, and be a trailer queen or put to work, with a careful eye to maintain it, up to the end user.


Personally, I think it would be kind of cool to have one that was completely overhauled, careful eye and attention to the goal of restoring to the original condition, or as close as you can, who cares about the snobish nay-sayers if something hard to find or what have you is not correct, still represents a lot of hard work, yet you have something that is still very pleasant to look at and show, everyone has a favorite tractor, would be fun to say you have done one from the ground up wouldn't it ?

I also think that a tractor that has been assessed for mechanical condition, subsequently repaired, cleaned, painted, and is field ready is something to appreciate, its a tractor, in nice working shape, something that is a useful tool and enjoyable to use because of the pride someone took in making it so. Additionally to that, an unrestored original in decent mechanical shape, complete etc. is just as appealing, especially if you need it for work or any other purpose, that is what they are meant for anyway !

What JD Seller describes is more or less a shame, that is a wonderful accomplishment for a kid that age, whomever decided to comment should have just kept quiet. It is a learning process, gee if it was mechanically sound and the right color, what more could you expect from a teenager, museum quality and the big mouth is to judge ? These kinds of attitudes, discourage people, ruin the hobby and just portray the people that participate in same as being narcissistic jerks about inane details most of us could care less about for the most part. Its a hobby, supposed to be fun regardless.

Why not define the different restoration methods, repairs, include a category for younger or less experienced hands, you decide what you can afford, what your ability is and or what fits best into your plans for a particular tractor. There are a lot of variables when you start, that will affect how far you may want to go with repairs, asthetics and so on, maybe you want one that runs, has decent rubber, is complete, tin not mangled, everything works, and a simple paint job to top it off. Call that one category, as opposed to a smithsonian institute correct museum piece or one that exceeds that, call that another category and or do the same creating several levels, so everyone is on the same page. Only problem with any of this is when people mis-represent tractors , state it is one thing, in reality its not, that seems to be the main problem, agreeing on something like this.

Exactly. I grumble to myself when I see some of them,but I just keep walking. If a kid does it,tell him what's right,not what's wrong.
That kind of know-it-all crap is just disgusting.

I rebuilt a 39 John Deere B from the ground up and it is perfect except for the Steve Crum stack. It has the only spoke wheels that came factory the front lug nuts that were only made in 39&40 to the twisted wire in the grill. I have been to 2 shows with it in 15 years and you never hear a thing but crying about my exhaust stack...I like my stack and I love that tractor, so anyone else can kiss my a$$!

That is just fine until they offer it for sale and at that point I would think it would be prudent to point these things for uninformed buyers. Not letting people know would be like not telling when you knew that a car had the speedometer turned back.
If they are just showing it off then I would not think it would be prudent to make the person feel bad.

Ya,that's some petty crap,but when you're photographing for a calendar,there are plenty of Oliver 77s out there that DO have the side curtains on them and don't have a big hole chopped in the hood. We won't even get down to the small details.
Some circumstances,you just expect a little more quality.

I hope it never gets to where they have numbered rankings like for cars where your is only an 86 while mine is a 94. I don't know how it works-some body told me about it. Sounds like snobbery to me. I have thought that it would be interesting to take a pretty well restored tractor to a show and when somebody walks up and starts to look it over you hand them a pen and a sheet of paper that at the top it says "can you find the 83 incorrect points on this tractor?" Then see how much they know.

Bob, you've made an excellent point about the G sans implement attachment and lift. That is something I had never thought about before.

I do wish though when they are finally advertised for sale that the seller would at least offer the lift mechanism along with the tractor whether refurbished or not. Well, at least they do show up for sale. Still a deal breaker for me.

Thanks for all of the opinions and replies.

Are we having fun yet? I've got tractors (8) that only 2 are authenic and at shows I let everybody know which is which. For example I take the battery clamps off and bolt a horse shoe on the side to hold the battery in place,( with a crome bolt of course).

Im with you.Im just glad to see it running and not bound for China.I like restored tractors of all sorts

It was the voice of experience, as my late Uncle owned a G with mounted cultivator, mounted planter, and undermounted sickle mover.

I LIKED that little tractor but changing attachments wasn't the greatest job in the world and trailering the tractor was difficult 'cause the implements didn't lift very high.

The question is what good is it with out a lift for mounting equipment that is supposed to stay with the tractor or without a drawbar to pull anything. That would be an incomplete tractor. And they probably think they can sell the tractor to some body that is not thinking about that part and that they have sold those parts to somebody that bought one of those incomplete tractors. And this can be on all makes.

The biggest, most obnoxious snobs you will find in the antique tractor business bleed green.

My son reworked a JD 50 for use on the farm Everyday in the summer it is on a swather, rake or baler It is used all of the time. It was reworked and repainted to be a useable farm tractor. My brother-in law stopprd by on the way to Texas. The tractor was sitting in the yard with the baler still hooked to it. Really in its work cloths. Brother in law said "Boy it has some oil leaks". Answer "I got the Da00 thing to work not be a beauty queen.

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Looks like it has the mud scraper between the front wheels. Don"t see many of those scrapers.

I guess I'd put a sign on it, somethng like "Restored by owner, Joe Smith, Age 13. Hopefully the first of many." Most guys will pick up on that, be all smiles and praise, even the snobs.

Nobody should put down a young kid who's interested and has the guts to do something. Help and encourage him.
Can we take this whole restoration thing a little further ? Let's compare it to buying an older house that needs fixing and repairs.

1. It needs a new furnace so I will look high and low for an original furnace that's 40 percent efficient cause that's original.

2. The wiring needs replacing so I will replace it all with knob and tube 2 wire braided wire cause that's original.

3. The telephone lines are bad so I will install a black rotary desk phone cause cell phones and touch tone are not original.

4.The linoleum in the kitchen is worn so I will replace it with asbestos filled N.O.S. linoleum cause that's original.

5. The exterior needs painting. I will have a hard time finding the Putrid Pink color it has but that was original.

5. TV, Stereo,Microwave,etc, Not original !!

6. Sorry for the rant but I believe it's your House and your tractor and you have it the way you like it.

7. In the car show business it's called restification. Restore with modifications that suit you.

...Seen a few binderoids that believe they're something quite special too.

I agree with Pete and others that it is nobody else's business but yours as long as you are not trying to sell it as a 100% restored tractor or equipment. As for the individual or individuals who would criticize a kid for his efforts, those people should have some teeth removed and a boot planted where the sun don't shine. Just my personal opinion.