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Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350

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Jrry

03-12-2007 09:28:09

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I need some help. I have an IH 350 with loader and fast hitch. The hydraulic pump is working but the laoder will not lift. The fast hitch was working but I lost some fluid and now is not. I believe I have air in the lines and need to bleed it. How do I go about bleeding the system. thanks for any help.

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Don Benson

03-13-2007 16:39:07

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Jrry, 03-12-2007 09:28:09

The hydraulics on this 350 utility tractor is totaly diffrent from a regular 350. The tank under the seat is the hydro tank the large plug right of front center is the fill, the fill on mine has a dip stick that is full at 2" below the top, the fill plug that you mentioned on the side is probably one of the 6 ports that were for the factory valves, 1/4" 1/8" and 3/8" pipe thread Fill from top, and fill her up, also there is an air relief valve under the seat make sure that it is not stuck closed or been removed. Also I thought that it is possible that when you lowered the level of fluid the suction screen in the tank got plugged, it is a brass screen in the suction line going directly to the pump. To check you need to remove the seat and the top of the housing what a mess!!! trust me I have lost sleep over mine ( it is working great now) if every thing is as said fill her up and get a pressure gage for hydro and install in the 1/4 " pipe thread hole (that is plugged) on the right side of the tank under the seat start it up and read pressure this will give you what the pump is doing start there

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Hugh MacKay

03-17-2007 02:58:11

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Don Benson, 03-13-2007 16:39:07

Don: I beg to differ with you on the opinion that 350U and 350F hydraulics are totally different. While they are physically different, and placed in a different location on tractor, both tractors have the same hydraulic components. Both have the same standard or optional pump, both had too small of reservoir, both had a relief valve, both used that screen and both were equiped for 3 factory double action control valves, and one could be equipped with draft control. In both cases the actual control valves were identical and could be changed to single action.

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Jrry

03-14-2007 05:36:14

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Don Benson, 03-13-2007 16:39:07

Thanks Don for the information. Does the hydraulics use the Hytran fluid? I'll try adding fluid first and see what happens. Jerry

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Don Benson

03-14-2007 17:47:03

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Jrry, 03-14-2007 05:36:14

hytran is the best check with your local Case IH dealer for it or they will have a substute for it, post again if filling it doesnt work

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Don Benson

03-13-2007 16:39:05

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Jrry, 03-12-2007 09:28:09

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georgeky

03-12-2007 22:02:40

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Jrry, 03-12-2007 09:28:09

Jrry, I think if you add Hy-Tran to your Hydra-Touch unit it will cure your trouble.

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Jrry

03-13-2007 05:51:40

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to georgeky, 03-12-2007 22:02:40

George, I think you are right. I have been using other tractors that have the hydraulics and transmission resevoirs together and I did not know the 350 had seperate resevoirs. I'll have to get another bucket though since I emptied all I had into the transmission.
Jerry

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Armand Tatro

03-12-2007 20:32:22

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Jrry, 03-12-2007 09:28:09

The possible exists that at least one the triangle posts that the bottom of the lift cylinders and the boom attatches to are a
hyd. tank to supply crankshaft-driven pump that is behind the guard at the front of the tractor.Look for breathers; pipe fittings; ect. around that frame. A few loaders did use loader frame for hyd. tank but I might be wrong about this one. Something to check. Armand

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Hugh MacKay

03-12-2007 10:18:03

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Jrry, 03-12-2007 09:28:09

Jrry: Hydraulic systems on a tractor as new as 350 should never need bleeding. Hydraulic function should bring all air back to the resevoir where it will be expelled through the resevoir breather. If your loader will not raise you have something else wrong, low fluid, wrong plumbing, bad pump, etc.

Having said this, if your system had much air, you may have to top up the resevoir 2-3 times. A 350 with loader, manual will call for raising loader from ground to full height up to a dozen times, plus tiping bucket cylinders as many times to bring all air back to resevoir. Bear in mind if you do that with resevoir too low, each time you do it you will add air rather than get rid of air. Unless a 350 has and additional resevoir they don't have a lot of additional oil resevoir for a loader. Most 300 and 350 required an additional resevoir with fast hitch plus a loader with hydraulic bucket. If you don't have an additional resevoir that may well be your problem, not enough oil to do the job. Additional resevoirs must be mounted on tractor above the factory resevoir to let oil flow via graviety to the factory resevoir. The breather must then be removed from factory resevoir, (plug that hole) and place breather on top of additional resevoir.

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JayWalt

03-12-2007 18:34:01

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-12-2007 10:18:03

Hugh, you are definitely right. He has been adding hydraulic fluid to the tranny. The 350u and the 300u are pretty simalair, and thats exactly what he did if they are. I was wondering why he said the fill plug is to the left side of the shifter. It is actually where the seat mounts, right under it on the front of the rev cover a tad to the right of center. The drain plug is underneath the fasthitch cylinder mount. When he said he added 5 gallons of hytran, I was like, What the Heck? The system only holds like 13 quarts I believe.

Not sure if I would drain the tranny. The manual for the 300u says to use sae 10w oil with 1 quart of IH transmission and torque amplifier additve. I'd imagine hytran would be fine.

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Hugh MacKay

03-12-2007 19:09:27

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to JayWalt, 03-12-2007 18:34:01

Jay: I was giving Jrry the benefit of the doubt as many 300-350 both Farmalls and Utilities had had 3,4, and 5 gal auxillary reservoirs added to their system I realize the Farmall system is somewhat different, however the factory reservoir holds about the same capacity and both have all the same components.

With regards to your other post, there is absolutely never any need to bleed a front end loader with single action lift cylinders. In my day, I've probably owned 50 functioning hydraulic pumps all the way from 4.5 gpm to over 50 gpm and presures that would make a 300 look like a kitten. Well over 250 hydraulic cylinders and probably 35 hydraulic motors. Probably 1/3 of those cylinders were single action. The only cylinder I ever bled in my entire life was a verticl telescoping truck hoist cylinder.

Now I will say this, I have seen hydraulic plumbing nightmares that I expect have to be bled.

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JayWalt

03-12-2007 18:22:23

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-12-2007 10:18:03

Hugh, I have to disagree. You are definitely correct in most respect, however, if the loaders cylinders are one way, they do need to be bled. I have had to do this the 3 times I have flushed my hydraulic system. The reason this is, is the lift cylinders always sit with their rods ends higher then the hose connection. Also the piston does not return all of the fluid to the res when the cylinders are fully retracted. I had to remove the cylinders. run the rods out with the valve, then tilt the cylinder with the hose being the highest point so any air would be forced back into the resevoir. Having air trapped in the cylinders doesnt effect anything, it just makes the loader bouncy with a load in the bucket. My 2 way dump cylinders bleed themselves, as I can work them with the loader arms up to get the air to rise to the hoses. As far as the main hydraulics, the suction, pressure and vavles, they dont need bled, just worked a bit.

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georgeky

03-12-2007 22:00:01

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to JayWalt, 03-12-2007 18:22:23

I have never had to bleed any cylinder and I have several One and two way cylinders. Just my experience with them.

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Jrry

03-12-2007 11:10:56

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-12-2007 10:18:03

Hugh, thanks for the reply. I have not had the tractor very long. The hydraulic fluid was low when I got it. I put 5 gal into the system but it still has not reached the overflow plug so I probably need more fluid. The reason I thought it may need bleeding is that the lift was working but then quit. I had taken a plug off from the hydraulic line by the loader knobs. When I cranked the tractor the fluid starting squirting out until I could turn the engine off and replace the plug. The fast hitch was working prior to losing this fluid but did not work once I lost the fluid. I added more fluid but still the fast hitch would not lift. There is a knob on the loader that pushes in and pulls out so the fluid will either operate the loader or the fast hitch. The loader does not have a bucket but the hydraulics have lines to operate hydraulic bucket (the hydraulic fluid will work on those lines to work the bucket cylnder).

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Hugh MacKay

03-12-2007 12:21:07

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Jrry, 03-12-2007 11:10:56

Jrry: Tell me a bit more about this system. Is it Farmall or Utility? Describe more about this switch over valve for hitch. Where is the resevoir you adding oil to? I ask these things as I am obviously not clear on just what you have.

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Jrry

03-12-2007 12:53:17

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-12-2007 12:21:07

Hugh, I will attempt to add a photo here.

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Ed Topel

03-12-2007 20:46:23

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Jrry, 03-12-2007 12:53:17

The loader looks a lot like the Conematic-Pippen (sp?) loader on my Dads 240u. It also has a backhoe. The pump is mounted in the front on the loader frame and shaft driven off the crankshaft pulley. The hydraulic resevoir is in the loader frame on the right side ( the big triangle shaped box that the loader arm is attached to at the top). On our 240 the diverter valve switches flow between the loader and the backhoe. Hope this helps. Ed

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Hugh MacKay

03-12-2007 13:47:50

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Jrry, 03-12-2007 12:53:17

jrry: Another question, just how many hydraulic pumps does this tractor have and where are they located? I think I see a pump on distributor drive. That shield out front of grill looks like pump protection for an out front crank driven pump.

What is the make of that loader? Almost looks like MF?

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Jrry

03-12-2007 14:17:30

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-12-2007 13:47:50

Hugh, I can't read the tag well enough to determine what type loader it is. I think the tractor only has one hydraulic pump. I can email that picture to you and you can probably get a closer look at the tractor. Shoot me an email and I will reply with the picture. thanks

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Jrry

03-12-2007 12:40:18

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-12-2007 12:21:07

I have the utility 350. I added fluid to the resevoir opening by the shifter in front of the seat. There is a plug below the clutch pedal that I assume is the overflow plug for the resevoir. The switch over valve is below the handles on the loader. There are two handles on the loader, one works the bucket and one workes the up and down cylnders on the loader. The switch over valve is below the two handles and is about the size of a silver dollar. It pushes in for the fast hitch and pulls out for the loader (I may have that backwards). The hydraulic pump at the front of the tractor feeds the fluid to the loader and from the loader via the switch valve feeds into the rear of the tractor below the seat. BTW the loader did try to lift once but it has not attempted to move after that. I will answer any other questions if needed. thanks

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Hugh MacKay

03-12-2007 13:39:49

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Jrry, 03-12-2007 12:40:18

jrry: From your description, it sounds as though you added hydraulic oil to the transmission, right or wrong? On IH 350 tractors the transmission is not the hydraulic resevoir, or at least not factory resevoir. Can you describe for me the course of the plumbing both lines from the pump? Describe the complete route all the way from pump to hitch tower, explaining every valve or block it goes through. You obviously don't have factory plumbing. It may be as simple as putting hydraulic fluid in the actual 350 hydraulic resevoir which should be under the seat. That hydraulic resevoir and transmission-rear end are two separate compartments.

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Jrry

03-12-2007 13:56:15

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-12-2007 13:39:49

Hugh, you may have found my problem. I have several other IH tractors from that time period and they all have the transmission and hydraulics in the same resevoir. I don't have any books on this one yet. I put a picture up and I can email it which may give a closer view. thanks

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Janicholson

03-12-2007 10:01:23

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Jrry, 03-12-2007 09:28:09

If it has been refilled, pressurizing the resivoir with 20psi (max) can assist priming the pump. Loosening the intake fitting at the pump to bleed air can also work. If fluid runs out, it is probably not prime problems. My best guess, JimN

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Jrry

03-12-2007 11:12:54

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Janicholson, 03-12-2007 10:01:23

Jim, thanks for the reply. I guess priming is not the problem. See my reply to Hugh for more details. thanks, jerry

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the Unforgiven

03-12-2007 13:04:14

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Jrry, 03-12-2007 11:12:54

Might keep an eye on your engine oil level, make sure it is not losing hydraulic oil into the crankcase.

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Jrry

03-12-2007 13:11:16

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to the Unforgiven, 03-12-2007 13:04:14

The engine oil preasure is running a little over 60 psi. At least the guages work. LOL

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the Unforgiven

03-12-2007 16:16:28

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Re: Bleeding hydraulics on an IH 350 in reply to Jrry, 03-12-2007 13:11:16

The level, not the pressure. If the main seal on the hydraulic pump goes bad, and it is one of thier favorite tricks, you will always be getting low on hyd. fluid and you will appear to be "making" engine oil, the hyd. fluid will be spilling into the crankcase.

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