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Thermosyphon cooling questions

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Will

06-22-2003 23:20:00




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Ok all you "small" Farmallers... here's a quick question.
With the old thermosyphon cooling system, has anyone found the need to add a water pump? Im running two Farmall Bs with a five foot cutter, a five foot drag disk and a two row drag planter with the tractors.
As the temps have soared up above 100 this summer, I noticed that one of the tractors sounded like it was boiling. Should I add the water pump to the tractor?
Thanks for the advice..

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mbnok

06-30-2003 20:41:58




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 Re: Thermosyphon cooling questions in reply to Will, 06-22-2003 23:20:00  
It is easy to overload any engine (pulling in to high a gear is common).
A handy gadget to watch this is a vacumm gauge. Sometimes called a motorminder, to help use less gasoline.
When I put one of these on the B in fifty's or very early sixty's I discovered we had been overloading it since it was new. Pulling a 2-12 plow in heavy clay, should have used a 1-16.
I was pulling a 13-7 wheat drill in third and overheating, raised the furrow openers a little and the readings went from 5-7 to 10 no more heating. ( got a lot better stand also--- not planted as deep)
All engines don't seem to heat at the same readings. It might be the gauges are not same. They haven't been tested but the important thing is your experience with your engine. I have one on my pickup,pull a large stock trailer. Sometimes I pull a load faster than I can pull empty into the wind. Loaded in to the wind is tough, (slow).

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Haas

06-23-2003 05:54:13




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 Re: Thermosyphon cooling questions in reply to Will, 06-22-2003 23:20:00  
As the others said, no need to add a water pump as long as things are well maintained. But, you need to make sure the radiator and the block are as clean as you can get them. If you want to flush it, take both top and bottom hoses loose and stick a water hose in the top neck of the connection to the engine and run water through. You'll get rust and crud out. Also run water through the radiator. Also, you need to check the coolant level frequently to make sure it is at the proper level per the operators manual. If you are doing heavy work and you let the level get low, you can burn some valves. First to go will be number 4 cylinder, because it is at the back end and gets the least cooling.

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Tom Olson

06-23-2003 05:52:15




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 Re: Thermosyphon cooling questions in reply to Will, 06-22-2003 23:20:00  
Hi Will,

This Spring I had to put a new head gasket on my 1948 Super A (SA's also use thermosyphon cooling). The IH parts man called my attention to the fact that there are 2 different gasket sets for these engines (113 & 123). The only (but very important) difference is the size of the holes in the gasket for the coolant to circulate. He had one of each set to show me; and the diameter of the coolant holes in the head gasket for the theromsyphon block are larger than the holes in the gasket for the engines with water pump.

I'm thinking that some of the recent posts on overheating may be due to the fact that fellow "Farmallers" are getting the wrong gasket set for their tractors that use thermosyphon cooling. I wouldn't have known the difference if it hadn't been pointed out to me.

Tom

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Al

06-23-2003 17:24:50




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 Re: Re: Thermosyphon cooling questions in reply to Tom Olson, 06-23-2003 05:52:15  
I have never heard about the difference in head gaskets. Will have to remember that difference.

I had my SA rebuilt in 2001. My mechanic was worried about the "gurgling" when shut off and put a waterpump on. He also said my new heat indicator didn't work. I am in the process of doing the cosmetic work now and will probably take the water pump off because it interferes with the radiator shutter linkage. Long story short, I took the "bad" gauge and put the sender in a pot of water on the stove and began to heat it up. Worked fine. I guess this means my Super A has the head gasket for the 113 engine!

Al

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Hugh MacKay

06-23-2003 05:38:18




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 Re: Thermosyphon cooling questions in reply to Will, 06-22-2003 23:20:00  
Will: Further to what Randy has said you can also have passages around one cylinder restricted causing parts or say for example one cylinder running a bit hotter than rest. I am not sure adding a water pump would correct this. One item that has been very important over the years is keep that cooling system full of a good water-antifreeze mixture. It prevents this rust build up. If you know that history, it should help more than anything. If you don't know the tractor history there is really no way short of pulling the sleeves to find out.

However, if as Rick says you are just getting that gurgle for a minute or less when tractor is shutt down, I wouldn't worry too much. My Super A has been doing that for 31 years that I'm sure of and probably has for 50 years. I had the head off n 1991 and installed a new head gasget as presure was building causing engine to belch coolant out. Once the new gasget was installed no more problems. When that head gasget problem was ongoing I did have tractor blow steam a few times, however it didn't seem to hurt it as I probably burn 250 gallons of gas every year, some of it on quite heavy work. Tractor is still working fine, in fact you would go a long way to find a better working SA. No matter how long it sits summer or winter, 3rd turn of starter and its going.

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Hugh MacKay

06-23-2003 07:27:03




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 Re: Re: Thermosyphon cooling questions in reply to Hugh MacKay, 06-23-2003 05:38:18  
We are great here this morning on follow ups. However having said what I did it probably will not save you a whole lot to pull those sleeves just to find some crud that will maybe cause you some problems next year, 2 years, 5 years or even 20 years down the road. You may as well run it until you start seeing items like blow by, loss of power, oil consumption, etc. That is precicely the beauty of these little sleeved engines, as long as you never let them freeze and break 50 or 100 years from now you will still be able to rebuild them as good as new.

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Randy in NE

06-23-2003 07:08:50




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 Re: Re: Thermosyphon cooling questions in reply to Hugh MacKay, 06-23-2003 05:38:18  
As a follow up to what Hugh has said. If you have been working the tractor hard you may want to let it sit and idle for a couple of minutes to let it cool down. A simple thing like facing it into the wind will assist the fan for air flow instead of working against the fan. If the radiator and block are clean it should cool adequately even on a hot day.



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Randy in NE

06-23-2003 04:01:16




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 Re: Thermosyphon cooling questions in reply to Will, 06-22-2003 23:20:00  
You may want to consider flushing the radiator and block. If you have a lot of crud built up inside the motor and some of the passages are either blocked or have reduced flow this can cause the tractor to run hotter than necessary. Scale/rust build up on the surfaces will reduce the heat transfer capabilities.



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Rick

06-23-2003 02:40:40




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 Re: Thermosyphon cooling questions in reply to Will, 06-22-2003 23:20:00  
Nope, the boiling noise is normall on these. I have an "A and the first time she got hot and made that sound I was in a panic. Then discovered there was no water pump. It was then that I thought I should read the book. I guess that there would be a concern if it didn't make that sound when hot. Be sure to check the coolant level every now and then. Have a good time with it.



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