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Broken bolt head.

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Ol' H

07-23-2003 12:28:11

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I have a 41 H. I was removing one of the two bolts that hold the channel frame to the engine and the bolt head snapped off about 1/4 inch in the engine mount. Any suggestions on how to get it out? Thanks in advance.

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WIRed

07-24-2003 13:09:46

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Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Ol' H, 07-23-2003 12:28:11

I agree, there has been some good advice given now that the problem has manifested itself.

I suspect the head twisted off of this rather large bolt while you were using a breaker bar? For what it's worth, a pneumatic wrench is the only thing I'll put on old iron -- 450 lbs. of equally applied torque will ease those rusty critters out in most cases without breakage.

I just turned the 1/2 way point in my total restoration of my '41 H. Only problem I've faced were the underframe bolts holding the radiator on. Had to melt those guys off. I did have two drawbar frame bolts that were bent and appeared to be ready to shear, but the impact wrench eased them off too.

Good luck.

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Randy in NE

07-24-2003 04:50:54

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Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Ol' H, 07-23-2003 12:28:11

You have received some good advice on this matter. Just a couple of comments on ez-outs. If a bolt is frozen tight enough to break off the head of a bolt then a person needs to remedy that prior to trying to remove with an ez-out. The ez-out is made of harder material than the original bolt but you are using a smaller diameter ez-out than the original. Also you get what you pay for. There is usually a reason why one tool or part is cheaper than another. While my "Bob Villa's" (Sears Craftsman) tools work for what I do my brother just laughs at them. He is a diesel mechanic and pays the extra money for Mac tools. I would to if I were making my living from them.

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Scott

07-23-2003 20:17:37

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Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Ol' H, 07-23-2003 12:28:11

I bought a Super M with a two row mounted picker. The mounting bolts had been allowed to loosen up,while the picker was in use. There were 4 sheared off bolts in the front bolster. I drilled a 1/4" hole through the center of each, then CAREFULLY used the torch to burn/blow out the remainder of ther bolts from the casting. Then I ran a tap through the holes to clean them up. Worked great. The bolts melted before the cast. Just take it easy though, don't get the cast too hot. I also used this technique to remove broken fender mount bolts in the blind holes in the rear axle housings. The slag spits back at you, and snuffs out the torch, but you'll get it eventually.

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Mguy

07-23-2003 19:20:30

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Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Ol' H, 07-23-2003 12:28:11

A perfectly centered hole graduated out a couple sizes at a time is your only option,now, it seems. Then pick the threads out with a dental tool. FOR NEXT TIME , Wham the sh-t out of the bolt head straight on before you TOUCH it with a wrench. A bolt's threads are backed up tight against the matching threads (fifty years worth)and a hammer blow shoves it in .00005 of a micron or so , but it does break the grip. Usually. Oh yeah , go slow. Mguy.

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Jeff

07-23-2003 16:13:03

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Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Ol' H, 07-23-2003 12:28:11

#1...CHEAP TOOLS DO NOT PAY !!
Check out a set of those new left hand reverse & out drill bits at SEARS. I have used the smaller ones on kitchen equipment were the heat cool cycle is pretty rough; and so are the bolts. Heat bolts as hot as you can to anile them. Plenty of liquid wrench etc. to cool the bit as you drill. Slow and easy dude.
One trick an old timer, and I mean old, this guy worked on horse equipment as a kid. Punch the bolt with a good sharp center punch. With out the ability to send a picture..think of MR.Bill's face on Saturday night. Drill a hole about 1/2 the size of your bolt JUST inside of the thread. Next drill two smaller holes just inside the thread and have them just touch the edge of the big hole. This gives you three holes. If you do it correctly the old pieces will fall out or need a little help from a screw driver etc. A lot of work BUT.... Hope it helps Jeff

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Farmer Bob

07-23-2003 13:42:18

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Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Ol' H, 07-23-2003 12:28:11

One trick I have used is to remove the whole frame rail (on that side with the broken bolt)which may give you a little better access to welding a nut onto the broken shaft of the bolt. Only other thing to try is drilling out the center of the bolt as suggested below gently increasing the size of drill bits used. Left hand drill bits work best. Or, invest in a good set of Blue Point extractors. These are industrial tools and quite expensive but well worth the money. A friend gave me a set awhile back and its the best tool in my toolbox. I've never broken one either like so many of the other cookie cutter ez outs.

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Ol' H

07-23-2003 13:06:45

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Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Ol' H, 07-23-2003 12:28:11

Thanks for the advice. I'll give it a shot.

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Gary_N_WV

07-23-2003 13:01:57

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Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Ol' H, 07-23-2003 12:28:11

I don't know about everyone else, but I have never had good luck with easy-outs and a broken easy-out is a lot harder to get out than the bolt.

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Scott Hansen

07-23-2003 13:08:32

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Re: Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Gary_N_WV, 07-23-2003 13:01:57

I've had the littler one break too, and then you are doubly messed up. But the big ones seldom gave me trouble. Frankly, I think heat is the primary thing in this case, whatever method you use to actually remove the bolt.

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dhermesc

07-23-2003 14:09:05

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Re: Re: Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Scott Hansen, 07-23-2003 13:08:32

I have had a little better luck then it sounds like is common on this board. I used an easy-out to get a manifold bolt out of the head of my 350. But I also paid N A P A a pretty penny for that one easy-out & matching reverse drill bit.

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Scott Hansen

07-23-2003 14:14:19

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to dhermesc, 07-23-2003 14:09:05

Never used a reverse drill bit. Does that matter?

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dhermesc

07-23-2003 15:22:44

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Scott Hansen, 07-23-2003 14:14:19

Probably doesn't but the guy behimd the counter claimed it would. I was very anxious to avoid any problems in getting the bolt out so I bought it too.

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Gary_N_WV

07-23-2003 12:39:43

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Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Ol' H, 07-23-2003 12:28:11

If you have access to a welder, put a nut over it and weld the nut to the broken bolt..... ..the heat from welding will also loosen the stuck bolt.

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Ol' H

07-23-2003 12:44:05

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Re: Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Gary_N_WV, 07-23-2003 12:39:43

The bolt broke off inside the tapped hold. Otherwise I would do that. Any other suggestions?

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Gary_N_WV

07-23-2003 12:57:57

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Re: Re: Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Ol' H, 07-23-2003 12:44:05

Other than you becoming good with a drill and drilling out the center of the bolt, no...no suggestions from me.

I am assuming that this is a blind bottom hole in the casting.

Depending on the bolt size..... ..if it's a pretty good size bolt, a good welder with a steady hand can do it..... .
I couldn't do it anymore because of eyesight and unsteady hand, but years ago I did many that where like you say...broken off down inside the hole.

Maybe someone else can suggest something.

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Dan

07-23-2003 12:57:22

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Re: Re: Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Ol' H, 07-23-2003 12:44:05

I have tried easy outs without much success unless the bolt is already loose and obviously this one isn't. Sometimes a reverse drill bit will bring it out but haven't really had much success with that myself. Usually in the end I drill the bolt and remove remaining threads with small chisel then run tap in.

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Randy

07-23-2003 12:56:40

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Re: Re: Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Ol' H, 07-23-2003 12:44:05

I would drill a hole in it and use an easy out. I would also heat it up red hot with a mapp gas torch if you can without burning something up. Good luck

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Scott Hansen

07-23-2003 12:56:34

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Re: Re: Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Ol' H, 07-23-2003 12:44:05

How about an EasyOut?

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Scott Hansen

07-23-2003 13:00:37

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Scott Hansen, 07-23-2003 12:56:34

And heat, like Randy says.

http://store.yahoo.com/toolsplus/han53407.html

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Jimmy King

07-23-2003 13:15:31

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Scott Hansen, 07-23-2003 13:00:37

I don't why they call them easy outs I have never had one work but once in my life and I'm 61,heat and a drill is the best and it's not easy sometimes.

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scott m

07-23-2003 18:33:21

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to Jimmy King, 07-23-2003 13:15:31

I too had the broken bolt in the H problem. I drilled the bolt and used an easy out. I think I bought the easy break version, it broke off in the bolt. Now I had a big problem. After some phone calls, I used a gouging rod in my welder and poked a hole thru the bolt, you must go all the way thru the bolt. The next thing is to heat the bolt cherry red with your torch, and spray the bolt with wd-40 or anything similar. Have the garden hose ready. If you do this 2 or 3 times the bolt will shrink more than you would think, then the easy out will work, usually turning it out by hand. Just remember the garden hose.

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Brad

07-23-2003 20:40:31

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Broken bolt head. in reply to scott m, 07-23-2003 18:33:21

I don't know why they call them easy outs because they are anything but. I saw an old mechanic use an ice cube on a bolt he had heated (the bolt only if you can)the shock of the rapid cooling ater being really hot cracked whatever was holding it stuck loose. You might have to try it more than once. Those ez outs make a great door stop!

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