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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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sharing IH dealer experience

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Terry

10-31-2003 08:08:52




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I was visiting with this older gentleman yesterday and learned that he had a IH dealership in Nebraska for several years. He told about a customer that he sold a 560 IH to. The customer had nothing but trouble with the tractor, they even replaced the engine among other things.

In hopes of satisfying the customer, they asked for a field man to go to the customer and work out the problems. The field man came, then left without saying a word to the dealership. The problems with the 560 continued until the dealership gave the customer a new tractor and ate the cost of doing so.

The gentleman that I visited with said that after IH quite producing the letter series models, thats when the trouble started with quality control and management. He said that he could buy combines in the winter time but not in the spring and early summer.

He didn't have any kind words for the labor unions and said that IH's engineering was a joke compared to other manufacturers.

I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone, I just thought it was interesting to hear about this dealers problems and thought I would share this with you.

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Paul in Mich

11-01-2003 05:38:21




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 Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to Terry, 10-31-2003 08:08:52  
IH was for the most part a well engineered product. Poor marketing existed long before the 60's. They were sitting on a bonanza with the introduction of their diesels, but failed to capitalize on that advantage. Cat recognized the potential of diesels in the mid-30's. In addition to marketing's haste to get new product out before bugs were worked out, they were also guilty of pushing a new line of construction equipment onto the ag dealers, rather than set up a network of construction equipment dealers independant of ag dealers.. This meant that the ag dealers now had to spend much of their credit line on construction equipment, thus reducing their inventory of ag equipment. This abuse of dealerships led to many dealers closing their doors since they could no longer serve properly the farmers who were their core customers. I think that IH is a perfect example of what can happen when arrogance in the upper management drives a company rather than customer needs.

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Kurt (mi)

11-01-2003 03:35:40




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 Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to Terry, 10-31-2003 08:08:52  
That was really nice of that dealer to replace his tractor. Almost unheard of.



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Hugh MacKay

11-03-2003 03:50:07




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 Re: Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to Kurt (mi), 11-01-2003 03:35:40  
Kurt: I suspect this happens a lot more than you realize, just that no one ever hears about it or in fact ever knows the complete story. I am aware of several instances in my farming career where I was told there was a recall on my equipment. Years later you find someone else who in fact did not experience the recall with the exact same equipment.



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CNKS

10-31-2003 19:50:40




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 Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to Terry, 10-31-2003 08:08:52  
Dr. Evil has it right. IH had good engineers, the marketing people made them rush to market. As to the 560, the main problem was a 6 cylinder engine mated to an SM transmission and rear end. the rear end couldn't take the power. The head engineer who designed the tractor was fired by a new CEO, although he tried to get sales to hold back releasing the tractor until he could get the bugs worked out--not the engineers fault. I believe Deere became the #1 manufactuer in 1958, ironically the same year the 460/560 were introduced. Get a copy of the book "A Corporate Tragedy". Somewhat biased against IH, but probably mostly true. I am not that familiar with IH beyond the letter series, but I understand that IH got their act together with the 706, 806, 656, etc. Other series had their ups and downs, some good, some not so good. Their last series before the merger, the 5288, etc were good also, but along with strikes, recessions, oversupply and management problems, particularly in the late 70's early 80's, along with much better management at Deere, they could not survive. As to the competition with the "smaller" companies Allis, Oliver, Ford, Case, MM, MF,etc, Deere is the ONLY company that has not gone broke or merged with some other company. You have to give them credit for that.

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Hugh MacKay

11-03-2003 03:40:27




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 Re: Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to CNKS, 10-31-2003 19:50:40  
CNKS: While I agree the 560 was a problem, it was not the cruncher. Selling fast hitch as the only hitch for mounted equipment for a decade was the true beginning of the end. Harry Ferguson had won the hitch war before IH sold it's first fast hitch. Fast hitch may have been a fine or even better hitch, but the problem is no one else had it. Mounted equipment was selling strong in the late 50s, early 60s. Many many customers left IH never to return after the hitch item.

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Allan

10-31-2003 10:56:44




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 Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to Terry, 10-31-2003 08:08:52  
Terry,

About the only lemon I can recall was a 560 diesel. Couldn't keep a head on it to save your soul...Every spring, another warped head.

When the IH mechanic decided that the block must be warped as well and causing all the problems, it was traded it off & we bought green for a few years until the 56s started coming out. No more problems; and we worked 'em very hard.

However, we never had a problem with the dealers themselves.

Allan

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Dr.EVIL

10-31-2003 09:26:38




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 Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to Terry, 10-31-2003 08:08:52  
All the Ag. equip. companies in the Moline/Rock Island, IL. area worked "Seasonally" back in the late 50's & 60's. Farmers would go down to the shops & build the equipment during the slow winter months, then farm during the spring, summer & fall. I grew up 20 miles from Moline during this time. Didn't make a difference what color the equipment was either, red, green, Sunset Yellow & Orange (Case). I'm not denying IH didn't have problems. I worked at FARMALL in many capacitys for 5 yrs in the late 70's & early 80's. Deere had problems also, as did Allis, Case, and all the rest. IH had Hydro-static drives, Axial Flow Combines, Cyclo Planters, several different types of automatic reset trip-type plow bottoms, MANY other highly engineered products for the ag industry. Their problem was their Marketing Dept. kept dreaming up too many new products for their engineers to develope and release before all the bugs could be worked out. I also think they chased WAY too many small niche markets where volume was tremendously low for the profit potential possible. If IH hadn't been so sucessful at building almost 400,000 H's and almost 300,000 M's, plus all the little Louisville tractors they would not have had the profits to spend on developing all that oddball equipment, and would have left those markets to the Short-line manufacturers. They tried too hard to try to keep up with CAT, Massey Ferguson, Allis-Chalmers, Oliver, Minneapolis-Moline, Case, and forgot about Deere, The Great Imitator. They lost sight of what their real goal was, to take care of the euipment needs of the American Farmer.

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Hugh MacKay

11-03-2003 03:23:25




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 Re: Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to Dr.EVIL, 10-31-2003 09:26:38  
Dr. Evil: After farming 2000 miles away from these factories, I couldn't agree more. Look at the dollars spent to develop the turbine 340, and where is the commercial ag use for this today? Is anyone still building hydros, other than 25 hp and under? You are entirely right to much time spent on niche market items.



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Joe Evans

10-31-2003 10:32:05




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 Re: Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to Dr.EVIL, 10-31-2003 09:26:38  
Could you please expand on the phrase, "Deere, the Great Imitator"? Not trying to start a scuffle here. Just would like some input from your perspective. I happen to agree with what I think you mean by the statement.



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bindernut

10-31-2003 11:19:25




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 Re: Re: Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to Joe Evans, 10-31-2003 10:32:05  
Joe, what I think Dr. Evil means is that that Deere was really Ih's biggest competitor. But IH seemed to focus on trying to compete with AC, Case, & the other smaller companies, instead of focusing on the competition with Deere.

Dr. Evil, am I somewhat right here?

Bindernut



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Dr.EVIL

11-02-2003 06:02:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to bindernut, 10-31-2003 11:19:25  
Joe - 100% correct. By "Deere, the great Imitator" I meant they never really developed ANYTHING new. They kept 2-cyl. engines 20 years too long and were the LAST to offer 4,6, & 8 cyl. engines in tractors. They worked on axial flow combines in the 50's and deemed them unworkable, and finally had to offer one after EVERY other combine maker had one. Sure, they dabbled with things like hay cubers, and some other small niche market equipment. But I can't really think of ANYTHING except the first Plateless corn planter that they ever beat anyone else to market with.

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Hugh MacKay

11-04-2003 19:14:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to Dr.EVIL, 11-02-2003 06:02:37  
Dr Evil: Oh but haven't they been sucessful with other people's ideas.



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scotty

10-31-2003 10:19:20




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 Re: Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to Dr.EVIL, 10-31-2003 09:26:38  
Dr. Evil, Just wanted to tell you I really enjoyed reading your post. Your the kind of guy I would buy a beer for just to hear some of those stories!

scotty



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RPM

10-31-2003 09:44:27




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 Re: Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to Dr.EVIL, 10-31-2003 09:26:38  
Amen brother, in spades, MT ran the show, I always thought they did a admirable job with AG being the weak sister of MT.



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Aces

10-31-2003 08:16:19




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 Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to Terry, 10-31-2003 08:08:52  
Just one man's experence I worked on IH for 15 years in the 60's and 70's never had a problem get company help or warrenty I know of one case where IH paid for repair when tractor was out of warrenty.



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RPM

10-31-2003 09:40:53




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 Re: Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to Aces, 10-31-2003 08:16:19  
Working at IH/CNH dealer since 1960 I can safely say that warranty was/is still a can of worms, from my experience you had to submit a lot of paperwork or they wont pay you, this is usually the downfall of a lot of dealers, just not doing the paperwork. IH/CNH sure wont send out a person to prod you either.



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Dick Davis

11-01-2003 04:40:50




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 Re: Re: Re: sharing IH dealer experience in reply to RPM, 10-31-2003 09:40:53  
On warrenty work, did you ever read about the John Deere baler a few years ago? Long detailed write up in Farm Show magazine. Many dealer/manufacture's rep/buyer encounters - no satisfaction (dealer,as an aside, told buyer to haul the baler 200 miles away and trade it off). Ended up in court Judge ruled in favor of buyer machine was defective and could not me made to function correctly. But... under Iowa Lemon Law, agriculture equipement is exempt except for documented direct finacially losses experienced. Buyer got like $ 13,500 total, no legal costs, no lost business (he did custom baling), no punative damages, no forced replacement machine. The judge asked the defense attorney"s (John Deere) did you guys write this law for Des Moines? My nickel Dick Davis

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