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Diesel fuel conditioner and other tricks of the tr

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Michael Soldan

11-08-2003 06:32:39




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We had a diesel truck in the shop the other day and I asked the two owners if they ever put conditioner in the fuel and they looked at me like I was from space. So I asked if they used it in their tractors and their response was " whats it supposed to do?" I have used diesel fuel conditioner that is designed to clean injectors, remove moisture and lube the pump, used it for many years in the diesel engines. I also ocassionally add a quart of oil to a tank of diesel fuel for extra potential energy and pump lube. I have had a tractor dealer also recommend a quart of automatic transmission fluid to a tank of fuel. ATF will remove moisture in the system. It is no secret that trucking companies process their used motor oil and add it to the fuel tanks..anywhere from 5-10 % of the volume of the fuel. This gives more power and is an economical way to turn used motor oil into fuel. I am curious about what you fellows do in terms of diesel engine fuels. Incidentally I have added a few gallons of gasoline to the diesel fuel when its -27* Celsius. Northern Ontario truckers often add gasoline so the fuel won't gel. I'm interested in your thoughts....Mike in Exeter Ontario

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Hugh MacKay

11-09-2003 19:11:05




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 Re: Diesel fuel conditioner and other tricks of th in reply to Michael Soldan, 11-08-2003 06:32:39  
Michael: There seems to be some mis-conseption as to why anyone would ever add anything to diesel fuel. Most oil companies add their own additives at the time of manufacture. One item they can not add is something to stop jelling. Methyl Hydrate will just evaporate from any substance. Take for example your windshield washer fluid when it freezes, just because you haven't been using it much and once the jug you bought it in is opened the methyl hydrate starts to evaporate. Precisely why oil companies cant add it to fuel at the refinery.

There are a few do's and dont's with diesel fuel. NEVER fuel a diesel with jerri cans. ALWAYS fuel your diesel from a stationary storage tank. If you must fuel your diesel from a tank on the back of a pickup, do it at the end of the day after pickup has been sitting for 3-4 hours, thus allowing all water and dirt to settle. NEVER take the pickup to the machine, ALWAYS drive the machine to the pickup. Be careful to place fuel fill caps back in place. If that accident does occur deisels should have a water drain in bottom of tank. It is a good idea to open that water drain daily, before machine has been moved. Weekly is probably more practical unless you have reason to believe other wise. Methyl Hydrate need only be added at the rate of 1/2 cup per 100 gallons, anymore than that is pure waste. If the machine sits for 3-4 days the methyl hydrate will evaporate from tank. If everyone followed these rules, to the letter, there is no reason why diesel injection pumps and injectors built in the past 50 years will not give trouble free service for 10,000 hours.

One item most people might not realize is that storage tanks for finished product at refineries, have about 3-4 feet of water in the bottom of them. This serves two purposes, settling place for dirt, and time for refinery personell to correct a problem should a leak occur. They operate these tanks by never using out of the same tank they are filling. Fuel is always pumped off at a level somewhat above the water line.

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ih_bug

11-09-2003 08:56:23




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 Re: Diesel fuel conditioner and other tricks of th in reply to Michael Soldan, 11-08-2003 06:32:39  
engine oil does have more power than deisel aprox 10 times the bang im told this is why when a deisel engine starts to use oil rebuild it right away cause the engine oil slipping past the rings is now in the combustion mixture and when it goes off its more power than engine is designed for and the bottom end is going next, likely though the side of the block.
we do use methyl hydrate but it is dry and provides no lubrication so dont use to much we supplement it with a little oil.

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Hugh MacKay

11-09-2003 18:13:46




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 Re: Re: Diesel fuel conditioner and other tricks o in reply to ih_bug, 11-09-2003 08:56:23  
ih-bug: Just curious as to why you bother adding the oil to fuel oil when adding methyl hydrate. Anyone who has ever spilled a little diesel fuel knows there is no better lubricant. Probably wouldn't stay on for any length of time in most applications, but your injection system is full of it.

I really have to chuckle a bit at all these add this add that rules. Keep the damn water and dirt out of the fuel and any system is good for 10,000 hours. Methyl hydrate will keep fuel from jelling in cold weather. One good reason for not using much is waste, as very little is actually needed.

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ih_bug

11-09-2003 20:42:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Diesel fuel conditioner and other tric in reply to Hugh MacKay, 11-09-2003 18:13:46  
use more oil in gas than deisel have a massey 245 and ih sw4 among others but these two are the worst if we dont put oil in the gas the needle valves in the carb will stick either shut or open a little oil and no more problems the massey has done this since new in 76. to make winter deisel the companys add gasoline this thins it out and keeps it from gelling it also takes away lubrication sometimes the deisel we get dosnt feel slippery on your fingers.

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RickB

11-09-2003 03:47:39




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 Re: Diesel fuel conditioner and other tricks of th in reply to Michael Soldan, 11-08-2003 06:32:39  
Oils do not make more power than good fuel. In fact, oil has less BTU's than the volume of fuel it replaces in the tank when you pour it in. I run a good quality fuel conditioner as anti-gel protection from late fall through to early spring.



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Hugh MacKay

11-09-2003 18:20:31




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 Re: Re: Diesel fuel conditioner and other tricks o in reply to RickB, 11-09-2003 03:47:39  
Rick: Diesel fuel conditioner and air brake conditioners are just two, more expensive ways to buy methyl hydrate. Absolutely nothing more.



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Hugh MacKay

11-08-2003 18:34:02




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 Re: Diesel fuel conditioner and other tricks of th in reply to Michael Soldan, 11-08-2003 06:32:39  
Michael: I guess I form the ranks of farmers who use nothing in diesel fuel. I have one exception, I do use methal hydrate in real cold weather. Back in the early days when the auto and lube stores thought it was a miracle and charged $8. to $10. per gallon, you could buy it at the local drug store for $2.98. 1/2 cup to 100 gals of diesel or gasoline will beat any -15 to -40 weather. The beauty of the methal hydrate is its multi uses; lock deicer, strengthen your windshield washer, spray on rear and side windows, de-ice airplanes, air brakes, etc. I always carry a gallon, plus a plunger type spray gun, in my vehicles. It must be kept in a sealed container as it will evaporate. This is of course why your windshield washer often freezes, the methal hydrate in it has evaporated.

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Michael Soldan

11-09-2003 07:30:32




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 Re: Re: Diesel fuel conditioner and other tricks o in reply to Hugh MacKay, 11-08-2003 18:34:02  
Hi Hugh, I guess its the old school that if you keep your fuel clean and well stored it shouldn't need any additives. That B250 I bought that had set for 8 years is my best case study.That tractor ran poorly until I put the diesel conditioner to it. A mechanic friend of mine suspected a "slobbering" injector and once I had run a few tanks of treated fuel through it the tractor runs very well, obviously the injectors cleaned and save from removing them and cleaning or replacing, this product did a good job, as I said it is a three in one product designed to remove moisture so I suspect it has methyl hydrate in it as you have pointed out. Incidentally the Seaforth toy show is just over a month off so maybe we can hook up in Exeter and drive over. Take care.Mike in Exeter Ontario

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Hugh MacKay

11-09-2003 13:05:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Diesel fuel conditioner and other tric in reply to Michael Soldan, 11-09-2003 07:30:32  
Michael: Over the years I've achived exceptionally long life on injection systems, close to 10,000 on most and exceeding that on some. The biggest killer on Rossa Master injection pumps was water in fuel. I had this happen once with my Deere, employee left cap off fuel tank over weekend. That wasn't bad enough, fuel tank had a water drain. Had he drained that off before starting machine for work could have saved the problem.

If your ever in the Maritimes or New England with a diesel powered vehicle, fill up at an Irving station. Their diesel fuel will turn out more hp and your diesel will start better in cold weather. The down side is you will not get as good fuel milage. I've heard long haul truckers from all over the continant say nothing matches that fuel for power and starting, but look out on the milage end.

Give me lots of advance warning when you learn the final date on that Seaforth show. I missed that last year by waiting until Sun., then we got burried in snow. Thanks in advance for that.

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earlschieb

11-08-2003 06:40:22




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 Re: Diesel fuel conditioner and other tricks of th in reply to Michael Soldan, 11-08-2003 06:32:39  
When I was running a semi up your way all of the time, I put a product in with the fuel called Power Service, I never did have any problems with the fuel then. Some of our guys did put 2 gallons of gasoline to 100 gallons of diesel fuel, and they didn't seem to have any problems either. I do prefer the Power Service route better myself, but I have also used a product called Howe's (sp) with good luck too.

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