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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Lift or draft control symptoms?

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Mac

04-23-2004 21:41:46




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I have a Case 380B which is an industrial CIH485, that the lift sags on after a couple minutes, but just raise the control and it raises back again, like I could bungee control back and it'd be ok. It also jerks at max lift, but smooth through rest of travel. Any of this sound familiar?

Thanks, Mac




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Hugh MacKay

04-24-2004 17:36:34




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 Re: Lift or draft control symptoms? in reply to Mac, 04-23-2004 21:41:46  
Mac: I'm not familiar with that particular system, however based on other tractors, it sounds as though you have by-passing in the cylinder that lifts the hitch. The jerking you speak of, is that max. weight or max. height? Sometimes when hitches are doing this at max. height the lever is not metering with the hitch. Lever adjustment or the draft control could be causing this.

I never had very much hydraulic failure with these, but then you must remember they were much newer when I was farming. I have on many ocasions had levers not metering with the move of the hydraulic function. Usually adjustment will cure this. You may however have function in the draft control stuck, and these can do funny things. Unless you do 3 point work with below ground working tools, draft control will not activate, thuss after some time will become stuck.

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Mac

04-24-2004 19:40:34




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 Re: Re: Lift or draft control symptoms? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 04-24-2004 17:36:34  
My IT manual is sorta vague on this. Was hoping to narrow it down through someone's similar experience. Thanks.



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Hugh MacKay

04-25-2004 18:34:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Lift or draft control symptoms? in reply to Mac, 04-24-2004 19:40:34  
Mac: I doubt if anyone will be able to help you if you cant be bothered answering the question or two I asked.



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Mac

04-26-2004 17:36:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Lift or draft control symptoms? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 04-25-2004 18:34:33  
It was max height I specified in original post, smooth everywhere else. I disc about 7.5acres annual, but bought tractor 2nd hand rebuilt and was used as skip loader. It is an industrial based on a CIH485 except hyd is 17gpm and has HD front end. Probably saw a few days with box blade or rear blade, but not much plowing. The jerk was there when I bought it, butwas hardly noticable- maybe 1/2". Now it's a couple inches and I'm concerned. The troublshoot in IT manual says if hitch senses in OFF position ,adjust load sense linkage but I only have light to heavy draft, no OFF and I'm not sure if jerking is sensing. Also not sure if the jerking is causing load to lower (handle drops also) or if it's a seperate problem(cushion relief or drop poppet) Stopped, it will hold my 1000lb disc off ground for a couple hours, yet when transporting it won't hold max height for more than a few minutes, making loader work a pain. I often use them together, discing hard ground for easy loader work and chopping clumps in what I've dumped. Hope I explained myself a little better this time.
Mac

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Hugh MacKay

04-27-2004 03:33:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lift or draft control symptom in reply to Mac, 04-26-2004 17:36:53  
Mac: Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I see this when you are doing other work, like loader work or just plain driving from point A to point B the hitch will settle a couple of inches then all of a sudden lurch to max height? Will it do the same if nothing is hitched to 3 point, and you have a situation whereby it is just the weight of hitch itself? On your draft control OFF will be in the far light end of range. If you had an original IH operators manual, you would find it much better on operating topics. IT manuals I find are more geared to repair and rebuild.

My first opinion is the tractors internal lift cylinder is bypassing. I base this on the fact the hitch will go down in 2 hours if you leave it parked with disk up. I am also not sure this related to the lurching of hitch. The lift cylinder is the expensive fix, I like to look at the easy, non expensive items first.

What happens if you leave the hitch down a couple of inches? I have seen the frame around lever get bent just a bit, thus allowing the operator to move the lift lever just a bit beyond its normal limit. Draft control if not working right can do some funny things also. Is this tractor upper or lower link sencing for the draft control. Most draft control problems are something bent or stuck. I presume you have tried every concieveable position for the levers. Does the rate on this hitch lurching change if tractor is running at low idle, then compared with say 1200 rpm? I'm thinking bypassing in lift cylinder should remain constant,(length of time it takes to settle the 2", I realize the upward lurch will be faster with rpm) whereas draft control problems will change with rpm change. While I say this it may not resolve anything. I do realize how annoying this can be, been there and done that. I've always been lucky in that it was something bent or out of adjustment. A couple hours observing will be a whole lot cheaper than tearing into that lift cylinder.

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Mac

04-27-2004 10:05:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lift or draft control sym in reply to Hugh MacKay, 04-27-2004 03:33:39  
Yep Hugh jerking follows rpms and I don't think it's present without disc or at any other position except max lift. The draft sensing is relayed through top link mount via a sensing rod and torsion bell crank. I could live with the jerking, but the inability to maintain max lift is insufferable. *Is it normal for position lever to follow lift drop with cyl leakby, or does it sound like a lever friction adjustment on control?* I'll surely try all adjusting before pulling lift housing. I'm at work in Brazil and will follow up when I get back. I'm so busy using it when home,I rarely have time for computer or tractor tinkering, so I try to sort this stuff out from memory with you gurus while offshore.

Mac

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Hugh MacKay

04-27-2004 15:27:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lift or draft control in reply to Mac, 04-27-2004 10:05:47  
Mac: All I can suggest is play around a bit with any adjustments you have on levers or on that top link. Not being familiar with that particular system, I can't tell you exactly what to do. Even if you have someone familiar with that hitch, it still m ay be a case of trial and error adjustment.

Don't be surprised in the end if the lift cylinder needs rebuilding. The draft control will only let it drop so far then correct it.

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Mac

04-27-2004 16:28:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lift or draft con in reply to Hugh MacKay, 04-27-2004 15:27:51  
Thanks for hearing me out Hugh.



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