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Fire Crater Pistons + 100 vs 140 crankshaft

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Ramon from NC

09-28-2004 13:29:06




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I'll have to resurrect this topic from the dead so hopefully Hugh and Stan can add some insights. At some point in the future, I want to rebuild my engine with the fire crater pistons. I talked to the local tractor shop, and they said they do this pretty often and use IH parts and it would be around $80 per hole (as he put it). He said you typically get up to 3 extra horse power total. The only potential downside, he stated, was that they had reports of crankshafts going bad after this upgrade but he went on to say that his mechanics never could confirm whether or not it was due to the upgrade or due to just bad crankshafts. So my questions are
1. Does 3 hp sounds like the true hp increase due to Fire Crater pistons.
2. Does the $80/hole sound reasonable (not incl labor of course)
3. Does the crankshaft issue sound plausible.
4. Is the crankshaft in a 100 the same as in a 140 or not?

Here is the link to the original thread
Link

Thanks!
Ramon

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Stan(VA).

09-28-2004 16:11:19




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 Re: Fire Crater Pistons + 100 vs 140 crankshaft in reply to Ramon from NC, 09-28-2004 13:29:06  
1. Does 3 hp sounds like the true hp increase due to Fire Crater pistons.

Yes it's reasonable, but it depends on your starting point (what do you have now?).That would be a very good price. Did a quick online check at an IH dealer and see a range of $140-190 per cylinder depending on which kit. $75 per cylinder is closer to the aftermarket kit prices. Maybe ask them to quote you the IH part number that they are delivering (meaning it might not be IH, and not all firecrator kits are created equal [diff dome heights]).

Not in my experience. Crank failures I've seen so far were either bad machine work, low oil pressure (bad pump or run out of oil) or swapped bearing caps.
No. Journals are the same but front pulley is different for the new water pump layout (and they attach differently).


And I think this is a link to the whole thread,

Link

Stan(VA).

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Ramon from NC

09-29-2004 08:56:10




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 Re: Fire Crater Pistons + 100 vs 140 crankshaft in reply to Stan(VA)., 09-28-2004 16:11:19  
Stan (and folks), The update. So I dropped by today actually to pick up a subsoiler and asked him more probing questions. It is indeed $80/cylinder but indeed, he mis-spoke and it was after market. He said it was either through Tractor Implement Company or some other company that was owned by John Deere out of Nashville. I'll do more checking on this. Currently I have a stock Farmall 100, which I believe factory HP is 20.13 (from Nebraska Test results at>Link

Thank as always, Ramon

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Stan(VA).

09-30-2004 05:23:52




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 Re: Fire Crater Pistons + 100 vs 140 crankshaft in reply to Ramon from NC, 09-29-2004 08:56:10  
> So in increase of 3 hp would put me at around 23hp, closer to a Super C or an H. Does that sound correct?

Again, it depends on what you have now and you really need to check a little closer first. Since your 100 is almost 50 yrs old, don't be suprised to find an overbore kit has already been installed by a PO (especially if you don't know it's history). The major HP gain estimate is based on the 1/8" overbore and the dome . If your tractor already has either or both of these, then you might not notice that change as much as just a tighter motor due to new pistons and rings. Super C also gets some help from a higher RPM. Then remember the condition of the head and distributor is a very big part of the equation too.

> I am talking to the gent at Weber Tractors works ... Any experience with his stuff?

Don't remember if I've bought directly from him or not, but think I did meet Justin at the Red Power Roundup in PA and seems like a decent guy that's knowledgeable on his parts.

Stan(VA).

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Ramon from NC

09-30-2004 07:46:24




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 Re: Fire Crater Pistons + 100 vs 140 crankshaft in reply to Stan(VA)., 09-30-2004 05:23:52  
Stan (VA) As always, great advice. Is there any way I can tell if an overbore kit has been put into the tractor without pulling it completely apart. At this point, the tractor runs pretty strong and I get about 40 on the oil pressure gauge at startup and it runs down to about 20 after several hours of disking or bush-hogging and it burns no oil. Does that sound right? I thought that was ok for now and that I might go ahead and buy the overbore kit now (expecting that in a year or two, prices might rise) and then put it into the tractor later, when I either needed to do it or when we had some spare cash. By the way JT, I checked my notes and that other firm was A+I (the one owned by John Deere).

Thanks gents, Ramon

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Stan(VA).

09-30-2004 12:33:57




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 Re: Fire Crater Pistons + 100 vs 140 crankshaft in reply to Ramon from NC, 09-30-2004 07:46:24  
Ramon,
You can check for a dome by peeking through a spark plug hole while rotating the piston by TDC. Bore can be checked from underneath by dropping the pan (a little easier than pulling the head), and that allows you to get the bottom plate on your oil pump milled flat then replace it's gasket. That bottom plate does warp and then the gasket blows out and looses a fair amt of pressure right there. I would at least verify that the rod caps are all in the right place (numbers stamped on camshaft side of rod and cap should all correlate). If the oil pump bottom plate is in good shape (meaning no problems there)I would look closer at the bearings; otherwise, maybe leave well enough alone. Also, if you're not already, look into heavier oil, 30 weight or 20W50 can also help in an average wear situaltion.
Stan(VA).

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Ramon from NC

09-30-2004 13:08:26




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 Re: Fire Crater Pistons + 100 vs 140 crankshaft in reply to Stan(VA)., 09-30-2004 12:33:57  
Stan (VA) So do you think my oil pressure readings are good or bad? Ramon



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Stan(VA).

09-30-2004 15:17:35




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 Re: Fire Crater Pistons + 100 vs 140 crankshaft in reply to Ramon from NC, 09-30-2004 13:08:26  
Is the 20psi hot reading at idle or full rpm? If at idle, that's not bad. If engine is wide open, I'd say check into it.
Stan(VA).



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JT

09-29-2004 14:57:11




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 Re: Fire Crater Pistons + 100 vs 140 crankshaft in reply to Ramon from NC, 09-29-2004 08:56:10  
This sight has pistons and sleeves for sale also. The sale of that is what helps keep this sight up, so I would at least compare pricesand give them a shot



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JT

09-29-2004 14:55:18




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 Re: Fire Crater Pistons + 100 vs 140 crankshaft in reply to Ramon from NC, 09-29-2004 08:56:10  
I have used TISCO piston and sleeves and have had real good luck with them. Do not know about the other JD company.



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