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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Old IH gasket material

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IH544D

07-19-2005 17:29:15




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Anybody know what IH used in their old gaskets? Namely engine gaskets, timing covers, etc.. Just courious, I was cleaning up some old parts and was looking at the old gaskets that came off. Do they contain asbestos?




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Tim Malin

07-19-2005 21:16:38




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 Re: Old IH gasket material in reply to IH544D, 07-19-2005 17:29:15  
I have these boards I have used in my shed for a few years that are about as thick as cardboard, as strong as good plastic, and very heat resistant, so I have used them to deflect heat from my Nebco heater to engines in the cold of winter for starting or working on. This spring I read a sticker on them I never saw before and it said in big words "ASBESTOS BOARD" like they were proud of it. Made me think about throwing it away, but I couldn't make myself do it. The board has been MUCH too useful!!! LOL

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Dr.EVIL

07-20-2005 06:53:18




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 Re: Old IH gasket material in reply to Tim Malin, 07-19-2005 21:16:38  
My Folk's house was sided with that material back in about the mid-to-late 1940's. There was asphalt shingles under it, and a layer of tar paper. Great siding, just REAL brittle. Had to pre-drill all the nail holes to install it.



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CNKS

07-19-2005 17:38:25




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 Re: Old IH gasket material in reply to IH544D, 07-19-2005 17:29:15  
I don't know -- when I think about it, some of the older gaskets I have removed "may" have contained asbestos, always a good idea to wear a mask for removing old paint (lead or not), and if you are wire wheeling some really stuck gaskets off.



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IH544D

07-19-2005 17:41:16




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 Re: Old IH gasket material in reply to CNKS, 07-19-2005 17:38:25  
I was in fact cleaning the pieces up with a wire brush. I did breathe some of it and then started thinking...



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CNKS

07-19-2005 17:52:21




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 Re: Old IH gasket material in reply to IH544D, 07-19-2005 17:41:16  
The asbestos problem is probably over-rated. I used to work in a lab that had laboratory equipment setting on some hard asbestos "boards". I may have even cut some of the stuff to fit. (cough, cough, wheeeze). I'm not going to do it again though.



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Andy Martin

07-19-2005 17:50:30




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 Re: Old IH gasket material in reply to IH544D, 07-19-2005 17:41:16  
Yes there is asbestos in lots of old gaskets.

No, the risk of asbestosis is very minimal from cleaning old gaskets. Remember it was many years before the sonnection with asbestos use and asbestosis was identified and then it was many years before it was determined we should give up one of the best insulators and gaskets known to man.

We all used air pressure to clean asbestos-laden brake residue. We had asbestos in ceiling tile, floor tile, and steam pipes.

I wouldn't go out of my way to breathe it, but the asbestos phobia which has gripped some folks is just not called for.

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CNKS

07-19-2005 17:54:45




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 Re: Old IH gasket material in reply to Andy Martin, 07-19-2005 17:50:30  
I would worry more about cleaning the leaded paint off for hours at a time, but that is probably overreacted to, also.



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Wild Bill

07-19-2005 20:15:57




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 Re: Old IH gasket material in reply to CNKS, 07-19-2005 17:54:45  
Fellas, the asbestos problem is every bit as bad as everyone says it is. You guys wouldn"t have the care free additude that you have about asbestos if you would have watched your Dad die a slow and painfull death from asbestosis like I did. I cant believe you are giving someone the advice to "not worry about asbestos!"



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Andy Martin

07-20-2005 06:58:18




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 Re: Old IH gasket material in reply to Wild Bill, 07-19-2005 20:15:57  
I very much sympathize with your grief. Asbestosis is a deadly disease. It was a problem in the workplace, where people were exposed over and over. Wives contracted it from shaking out their husbands clothing. No one should have to die from trying to earn a living.

I never meant to trivialize the risks from asbestos exposure, only to put them in some perspective, and I don't feel the risk from gasket material is significant. I have had many hours of asbestos awareness, handling, abatement, and disposal training in the oil and gas industry.

However, the same or greater risks are present from smoking and second hand smoke. I have had friends die a very difficult death from lung cancer. It is serious business as well.

Smoking and asbestos are a more serious combination. Asbestos was outlawed but smoking was not.

Asbestos fibers have to be airborne and inhaled to cause asbestosis. Different people have different levels of tolerance, just as they do for cigarette smoke. In a refinery I worked in, we had an 80 year old retiree who smoked. His job had been to grind up old asbestos insulation to recycle it to make new insulation. This was before the days of respirators, and he smoked while inhaling large amounts of asbestos for many years. He never contracted cancer or asbestosis.

I do not run screaming from a room because I smell second hand smoke. But I should. In my mind, second hand smoke is much more serious than occasional asbestos exposure.

Using a wire brush to remove what gasket material does not come off easily is probably being used to remove mostly adhesive anyway. Using a wire brush on flaky old gasket material may put a lot of asbestos material into the air, but if the gasket material is easily removed, you probably aren't using the wire brush anyway. To cause damage, the asbestos fibers really need to be floating freely in the air. Fibers that are stuck in glue may make a dust, but if the fibers are just part of a dust particle and don't have free ends, their opportunity to irritate the lungs is going to be greatly diminished.

I scrape gaskets, and I don't use air pressure to clean brake parts any more. Those are easy things to improve safety. But I still have asbestos shingles on my house. They do not present any safety hazard.

The chances of contracting asbestosis from casual contact are real. The chances of contracting asbestosis from no known contact are real. The chances of contracting asbestosis-like disease from fiberglass are real. But the chances of a non-smoker getting lung cancer from second-hand smoke are even greater. They are all very small chances.

You can get cancer from used motor oil. Do you adequately protect yourself from contacting used motor oil? Do you use latex gloves when you wipe a dipstick to avoid oil bleed through from the rag or paper towell to your fingers? Do you sand blast with silica sand? Do you use spray cans of paint without a respirator?

To me it boils down to the fact that there are risks of living, and if you do things, you take a risk. It is to each individual to assess and manage their own risk. The government certainly is giving us plenty of guidelines.

Do you wear a respirator when you use a grinder on paint? Or on galvanized material? Or on stainless steel? Do you use a respirator while welding?

In Oklahoma, if you have asbestos in your private property which needs to be abated, it is permissible for you to do the work yourself with no license or training. After double bagging, it can be disposed of in any landfill. This is because of the very remote risk during short term exposure.

If your full-time job is removing asbestos-laden gaskets, or you hire others to do the same, the activity should be tested for dispersal of free fibers and you must wear appropriate protective equipment.

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CNKS

07-20-2005 05:18:12




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 Re: Old IH gasket material in reply to Wild Bill, 07-19-2005 20:15:57  
No one that has responded has a "care free attitude", repeated exposure is very harmful. It's just that the EPA, etc leaves the impression that if you even look at the stuff you are dead. I worked in a building that was remodeled, it had asbestos tile on the floor. They made everyone leave the building while it was being removed, I certainly have no objection to that. It is unfortunate that people did not consider asbestos harmful when your dad worked with it. Awareness has changed in the last 20-30 years as to the danger of certain products. I never had repeated exposure to asbestos floating around in the air at the place I worked -- if you leave the stuff alone, it doesn't do much. Same way with isocyanates in paint hardeners, people had to get sick and die before it got the manufacturer's attention. I became sensitized to isocyantes after only one exposure, since then I always use a supplied air system. Silicosis caused by sandblasting is another thing that will make you very sick or die. But, I will place isocyanates as far more dangerous with less exposure than about anything else. ANY chemical used in manufacturing or painting needs to be treated with respect.

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