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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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More On Fuel Injection on IH Sixes

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Buzzman72

09-08-2005 07:59:16




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One of the requirements on most fuel injection setups is some sort of electronic ignition. While Pertronix is what most tractor folks go to, since the only difference between the IH tractor six distributor and the IH truck six (SD, BD, and BG 220/221, 240/241, and 264/265) is the lack of a tach drive and the addition of an EXTERMAL vacuum advance on the truck motors...a GM HEI off a Chevy six can be adapted to work on the IH six.

It requires removing the distributor drive gear; shortening the shaft and slotting the end of it; installing a bronze bushing--available in the hardware section at Tractor Supply as Hillman 1/2"x5/8"x1-1/8" [will also have to be shortened]--to keep the distributor and oil pump connected; grooving the distributor housing for an O-ring; and, since the IH engines rotate the distributor the opposite direction from the Chevys, rewoking the centrifugal advance. And if you want the vacuum advance to work, it requires a vacuum advance from an Olds [they turn opposite direction from Chevy], and some reworking of the housing to make it fit [think hacksaw, grinder, and some J-B Weld to fill the space where the old vacuum advance entered the distributor housing].

On the JustInternationals website-- www.justinternationals.org --they diagram SOME of the distributor mods, and make it look fairly easy. And since they are at the forefront in fuel injection conversions for International V8's, there may be some "trickle-down" from their discussions that can be applied to the sixes as well.

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Bob M

09-08-2005 10:15:19




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 Re: More On Fuel Injection on IH Sixes in reply to Buzzman72, 09-08-2005 07:59:16  
The few fuel injected engines I’ve messed with (Chrysler) dispensed with centrifugal and vacuum advance in the distributor. Rather spark timing is set by the ECU based on the various engine sensor inputs and a stored spark timing map. The distributor’s only function is to direct high voltage from the coil to the proper cylinder, and to provide TDC signal for ECU timing/RPM calculations.

So for your theoretical application it could be as simple as stripping the mechanical advance and breaker point mechanisms from the existing distributor, then adapting an HEI timing pulse generator in place of the points.

OTOH as others mentioned earlier, adapting/fitting/wiring engine sensors and creating a fuel/spark map in the ECU that optimizes performance at tractor RPM/load would be the tough part.

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ChadS

09-08-2005 11:20:11




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 Re: More On Fuel Injection on IH Sixes in reply to Bob M, 09-08-2005 10:15:19  
having a fuel injection manifold made is half the battle. How many injectors would it take to feed 3 intake ports at what rpm? As far as the computer to run the setup, Id look at the Ford EEIV from the 300 6cyl. That distributor should not be hard to convert to fit the IH engine. The Ford distributor has 3 jobs, 1, run the ignition, 2, tell the computer the engine is running, turn on the fuel pump, 3 signal the computer which injector to open. Both engines, will have to have the same firing order, 153624,,, so it wont throw off the injector timing, but, the ford also uses 6 injectors,, and I would have it the same way onthe IH engine as well. Get a good repair manual on a ford truck, that has wiring schematics to narrow down the wiring diagram for the distributor, computer, fuel pump, pump relay, and injectors, its actually pretty well self explanitory if you can read the schematics, to wire upthe computer, Id go the full 9 yards,, O2 sensors, TPI sensor, MAP sensor, those input/ output devices should be sufficient to run the Ford fuel injection. you have to have a way to detect throttle position, rpm, and exhaust gasses to regulate the fuel rate, which are adjustable in the ford computers, you would have to custom retro fit the computer to compensate from engine to engine, since they do not have the exact same characteristics,,, but can be tuned in by a good Ford mechanic who has experience with performance electronic upgrades for the the Mustangs, etc etc. Chad

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Loren

09-08-2005 18:19:08




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 Re: More On Fuel Injection on IH Sixes in reply to ChadS, 09-08-2005 11:20:11  
Seems to me that the distributor has only 3 jobs also but not what you figure. One is to tell the computer what rotation position the crank is at(which also tells if it's rotating t all), run startup timing, switches to run timing and distributes the secondary voltage. All the other chores are handled by the computer, from the info the dist. and other sensors tell it. Computer switches the fuel pump, adjusts the advance and of course handles all the injection chores, among others. Am I all mixed up on this? Loren,.

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ChadS

09-09-2005 09:49:29




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 Re: More On Fuel Injection on IH Sixes in reply to Loren, 09-08-2005 18:19:08  
Loren, your right on the money. I listed the basics, but, yes, there is more than 3 minor functions of the ford distributor. On my T-bird, from how I understand the system, power tothe components upon turning the key switch, that activates the fuel pump for a moment, shuts off, then you turn the key to the start postion. The distributor, when the starter rotates the engine, activates the ignition, tells the computer the engine is rotating, and rpm measurments, and crank, or cam location to know which cyl is firing, or upon an intake stroke,,, the MAP sensor helps start up timing by a vacuum signal, aided by the air temperature switch, and water temp switch for cold starts, and cold running charatceristics. Throttle position switches, compensates fuel rate pressure, so it takes 2 sensors to tell the computer rpm, and throttle position to know how much timing the injector has to remain open to feed the cyl. O2 sensors read how rich or lean the exhaust gasses are to also help regulate injector timing. Im not for sure if allthat happens in that exact order, Id have to go back to my service manual to be exact,,,, but that is some of the basics on how the input sensors of the EEIV system assist the computer. The output devices are control units, that is the sensors and switches, the computer controls to regulate injector timing, ignition timing, and rpm timing related issues the fuel system has to monitor to compensate. What these guys want to do is, convert the IH trucks with the old downdrafts carbs, to a more modern fuel injection, but, which system is the easiest to adapt? Chad

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Loren

09-17-2005 09:40:40




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 Re: More On Fuel Injection on IH Sixes in reply to ChadS, 09-09-2005 09:49:29  
I think I'd stay with a Chevy system just for the reason of ease of retrieving data on the early setups. Probably from an early tuned port 2.8. Would make a very interesting project on an M.



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Harley

09-08-2005 11:36:34




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 Re: More On Fuel Injection on IH Sixes in reply to ChadS, 09-08-2005 11:20:11  
HUH? Most of us are just plain in awe of you guys and your technical stuff, but one has to wonder are you making a better mousetrap, or re-inventing the pencil? Git er done anyway, Harley



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Bob M

09-08-2005 12:31:02




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 Re: More On Fuel Injection on IH Sixes in reply to Harley, 09-08-2005 11:36:34  
Your point is well taken Harley!

For what it's worth my 50+ year old Farmalls, Olivers and MM perform very nicely with carburetors just like their designers intended. There is an elegance in their simplicity - I have no intention of making 'em unnecessarily complicated by adding fuel injection!!



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Paul Shuler

09-08-2005 19:19:47




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 Re: More On Fuel Injection on IH Sixes in reply to Bob M, 09-08-2005 12:31:02  
Ahh come on Bob. Just think of how fast you could whip that trailer around loaded with folks looking for a Christmas tree if your Super M had EFI and a turbo. Whoa, A turbo. Now there is a thought.



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Janicholson

09-08-2005 12:57:47




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 Re: More On Fuel Injection on IH Sixes in reply to Bob M, 09-08-2005 12:31:02  
The modern FI engine with all computer controlled components is very reliable. The metering of fuel is near perfect all the time. We have forgotten about float level, wear, adjusting richness at idle, high idle, full power, and choke/fast idle cold etc. The real reason is that Fi adds power, cleans air, reduces maint., and is cool.
JimN



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chadd

09-08-2005 12:54:41




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 Re: More On Fuel Injection on IH Sixes in reply to Bob M, 09-08-2005 12:31:02  
Amen to that one. I have enough trouble with the check engine light on my car to have one on my W6. If it worked 50 years ago, and its still working now, it works well enough for me!!



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Harley

09-08-2005 18:40:52




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 Re: More On Fuel Injection on IH Sixes in reply to chadd, 09-08-2005 12:54:41  
Ya but to make myself perfectly clear, I'm not dropping the ball on you guys that know or want to know how to do that stuff. I am constantly awed on these sites at the technical knowledge that comes from some of "you old farmer types". no disparagement intended. I'm just not near that smart, engineeringly speaking, but in my own limited way, I like to experiment at making little changes to make something work a little better. You guys are just two stories higher in the building than I am, but like I said, I am in awe of some of your abilities. Git-er-done, Harley

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