Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Super A to Super C engine block conversion

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
mark buzzard

10-10-2005 22:19:48




Report to Moderator

I recently purchased a replacement block for my super A but the block serial number crosses to a 1951 super C ( my super A is a 49). If I'm not mistaken the super C is a 123 engine where as where the A is a 113 block. Does the head convert over? Do they use the same crank and will I need to upgrade from the old siphon cooling system, any help would be appreciated.




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

10-11-2005 03:26:13




Report to Moderator
 Re: Super A to Super C engine block conversion in reply to mark buzzard, 10-10-2005 22:19:48  
Mark: You can upgrade any of these engines to Super C specs. However may I point out that Super A after serial number 310300 have the same block as Super C. The Super A block part number after 310300 is 354898 R1. I don't have a Super C but am told it is same block part number, may be an R2 or R3. My Super A has this block and is equiped with very thick wall sleeves, giving it 3" bore and still 113 ci in. That is how all Super A after serial number 310300 came from the factory.

On another note, I fail to see the benefit, of changing these engines to 3-1/8 or 3-1/4. You see folks discussing trying to get more mower from one of these C-113 or C-123 engines, by various arrangements of bore, stroke and type of pistons. I have a one point fast hitch field cultivator with modern S tines, 17 shanks. If you let that thing down it will stop any of these tractors. I know it would stop a SC, 200 or 230 as well. I have gauge wheels on this cultivator and can see little difference whather I hook my Super A, 130 or 140 on front. Gauge wheels were required as tractor wheels going through the slightest hollow would stop the tractor. Yes the little Super A with it's 3" bore will lug this cultivator just as well as the others. By the way I know my tractors are all factory specs.

I think if I really wanted to upgrade a Super C, I would go all the way to C-135 specs. I have used my brothers 230 some and in my opinion these tractors just don't have enough engine for the heavier housing and that 36" wheel. My dad did business with a guy that speciaslized in rebuilding Farmall tractors back in the 50s & 60s. He always said these C-113 and C-123 worked fine and gave great hours of servive between rebuilds in the offset tractors with 24" wheels. Guys would come in for engine rebuilds on C, SC, 200 and 230, and they would have the crap beat out of them. by those bigger tires and the extra weight.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Randy in NE

10-11-2005 04:12:12




Report to Moderator
 Re: Super A to Super C engine block conversion in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-11-2005 03:26:13  
I checked with my copy of the parts manual CD. Both the Super A and the Super C list a 366294R93 so the blocks are the same. I would be careful about the cooling flow. When I replaced the head gasket on my C all I could find at the time was a gasket for a Super C. They make the cooling ports smaller on the Super C head gasket. I had to enlarge them to ensure that I would get enough flow with the thermosyphon. My C had the 3 1/8 pistons in it. I have been looking on my parts page but it doesn't mention a change with the serial number which surprises me. The crankshafts are the same part number 360296R91 (Standard) or 360297R91 (0.30" undersize).

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Stan(VA).

10-11-2005 07:58:42




Report to Moderator
 Re: Super A to Super C engine block conversion in reply to Randy in NE, 10-11-2005 04:12:12  
Randy,
There is often a difference in the part numbers you would order out of the book and the actual casting numbers one will find when inspecting a part. The 366294 number is an assy that includes the 366204 block. That block is not original to either of the tractors mentioned, but is the factory replacement at the time of the parts book printing. It is actually the block from the x30 series tractors which is the last casting in that family to use the old style water pump (the x40 series blocks have a different frontend to support the new water pump).
Similarly, the 360296/360297 numbers are assy's including bearings. The casting number on the crank should be 356308 if I remember right?

Your block in the C should be 251069, and 3-1/8 pistons just means that it has had an overbore kit installed somewhere in it's past (unless you happen to be between serial numbers 48000-48499, in which case you better not let me know or I will dog you until you strip it down and get me measurements on everything so I can learn a little more about what they did on that block of 500). ;) ;)
Stan(VA).

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Randy in NE

10-12-2005 04:49:25




Report to Moderator
 Re: Super A to Super C engine block conversion in reply to Stan(VA)., 10-11-2005 07:58:42  
I am safe this time. My C's are 51576 and 51578. It would sure be neat to get the one in between. Not that I really need 3 C's. I realized that the numbers I gave were for the entire assembly. I just wanted to point out that they were the same for the Super A and Super C. I was just surprised that the Super A parts manual didn't mention any differences between the early and late models. But then it can just be the copy of the parts manual that they happened to put on the CD.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy