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This question is electrical !

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Randy-IA

11-12-2005 21:17:21




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Hi , I found out my M originally had a unregulated 6 volt electrical system while reading the owner's manual . It has a four position switch which controlled the charging system and the light's ( Which are burned out it seem's , there's still juice to the housing's ) . Since it's been converted to 12 volt's with a alternator sometime long ago , do I need to use the switch as a regulator ? This afternoon while playing in the field with it I noticed that the amp gauge was pegged out on the charge side . That , I thought , was because I had used the starter so much when I had it flooded . But maybe not ? I didn't know what the L and the H on the switch were for until I read the electrical section in the manual a little while ago . I don't need to adjust the charge rate of the alternator do I ? It doesn't have a off position so do I still put it in the L position regardless ? It appears like the original wiring harness was used to the alternator with more modern wires used through the resistor to the coil . Any advice ? Thanks ...Randy

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Bob M

11-13-2005 05:36:44




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 Re: This question is electrical ! in reply to Randy-IA, 11-12-2005 21:17:21  
Randy - Presuming the alternator is wired up right (a reasonable assumption as alternators generally WON'T work if wired wrong...) the charge control function on your light switch no longer has any effect. Rather, the L and H positions have become two "off" positions for your lights.

The pegged ammeter is not a concern if you had been cranking the engine a while. It's merely indication the battery has been partially run down and the alternator is charging it hard.

However as the battery reaches full charge the ammeter should drop to 3 - 5 amps or so. If it stays pegged after running 1/2 hour or more, then the battery is being overcharged - something is wrong with the alternator's regulator or it's wiring.

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Randy-IA

11-13-2005 07:21:27




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 Re: This question is electrical ! in reply to Bob M, 11-13-2005 05:36:44  
Hi Bob , It is most definetly charging so I guess that's a good sign ! Unfortunatly I can't say that it was pegged the whole time I was on it because I didn't notice it till I was ready to shut it off for the day . That was after about 1/2 hour . I had my little 10 amp charger on it when I was working on it and it seemed to spin good while cranking . If I have time today ( and don't get blown out of this county , high wind advisory today ) I'll run it for a longer period of time to see what it does . Or before I leave I'll put the charger back on it and start it when I get home . Thanks , Take care ....Randy

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El Toro

11-13-2005 08:00:14




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 Re: This question is electrical ! in reply to Randy-IA, 11-13-2005 07:21:27  
I saw on the news this morning about the tornados hitting IA. Stay safe. Hal



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Randy-IA

11-13-2005 09:23:22




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 Re: This question is electrical ! in reply to El Toro, 11-13-2005 08:00:14  
Hi Hal , Thanks ! They were about 75 miles southwest of us . It's bad down there . Sound's like no one was killed . We just got strong wind and a spritz of rain . Not enough to settle the dust . Wind is still strong + 30 mph with gust's up to 50 . Making their cleanup pretty hazardus (sp) . Take care ...Randy



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It was pretty good, but n

11-13-2005 04:10:53




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 Re: This question is electrical ! in reply to Randy-IA, 11-12-2005 21:17:21  

.



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John T

11-12-2005 21:42:37




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 Re: This question is electrical ! in reply to Randy-IA, 11-12-2005 21:17:21  
Randy, Although I cant say for sure exactly not knowing how someone may have jury rigged your switch n system, if the Alternator is an internally regulated unit, such as a GM 10 SI, it doesnt require any external voltage regulation (it does require an excitation voltage circuit to its lil No 1 side terminal, see below) and WOULD NOT need to be wired to the combination light and field control charging system switch (L H B D) like they used for the old 2 wire cutout relay charging systems.

The resistors in that type of combo regulatign switch suppled EITHER a dead ground for the Gennys Field for High charge and a ground via a resistor on that switch for Low charge. It can still be used as a light switch if its good, but its not needed nor wired to an internally regulated alternator.

I have seen the GM 10 SI 3 wire alternators jury rigged up all sorts of ways to excite their fields/rotor so its no telling what you may have and how your switch and alternator is wired now. When I wire the GM 10 SI I use a 10 ohm current limiting protection resistor and a diode if needed in the excitation circuit, but I usually feed that off the Ignition switches IGN terminal or off the coils high input side. Most alternators are for Negative ground, in which case one has to rewire the coil and swap ammeter leads if it was an original Positive ground tractor.

YOUR SPECIFIC QUESTIONS:

Sooooo oooo, NO you do NOT need to adjust the charge rate of an internal regulated alternator..... .... It shouldnt matter if its in the L or H position, cuz theres no Generator wired to it, and therefore its resistor (Low charge) or its dead grounding (high charge) positions are of no consequence for your alternator, they were for a generator.

You mentioned a resistor and a coil????? If its a resistor in series with your Ignition Coil, they may have used the old original 6 volt coil and needed a voltage dropping (12 to 6) Ballast Resistor in series. Its wired after the ignition switch and ahead of the coil if its an ignition ballast resistor.

When I rewire for an alternator that had a genny previously, I replace any 12 gauge wire in the charging circuit with 10 gauge.

Post back any question, good luck n God Bless

John T, retired electrical engineer

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Randy-IA

11-13-2005 07:41:05




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 Re: This question is electrical ! in reply to John T, 11-12-2005 21:42:37  
Hi John , Thanks for answering ! I looked at the alternator and this is the way it's wired . The two original cloth wires are on the big lug and then from there a jumper goes to the diode plug ( orange ) a white wire from the diode plug goes to nothing . That's it . I guess it's set up as a one wire system . Is the white wire supposed to go to something ? It's been quite a while since I've had a alternator problem . Not even sure yet that this IS a problem . I don't get to work much on my stuff in the cold of winter ( more so the dark of winter ) during the week since I don't have any place inside to work on my vehicles close by . If I can get them to my place of employment ( 8 miles ) I can work on them there . So what I'm getting at is that it sometimes takes a long time for me to work on and fix a simple problem one day a weekend at a time . So bare with me please ? Take care ...Randy

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John T

11-13-2005 15:54:42




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 Re: This question is electrical ! in reply to Randy-IA, 11-13-2005 07:41:05  
Randy, I just got home and it look like Old has ya covered. When I use a 3 wire GM SI 10 Alternator like a one wire, I excite the lil No 1 side terminal via a wire from the ignition switches IGN (hot when ON) with a 10 ohm current limiting protection resistor and a 5 amp 50 PIV diode if necessary to prevent back feeding the coil in case she still wants to run with the igniiton OFF. The lil side No 2 terminal jumps to the big main rear output stud. The big main output wires with 10 Gauge wire up to the ammeters Load (NOT to battery/starter) terminal to charge the battery.

If shes NOT wired equivalent to how I said and its a GM 10SI, wire it that way n see what happens. The lil jump wire from the lil side No 2 terminal up to the main output stud serves as a sensor. If the battery is good she ought to full charge a bit after startign but then back off or else you may overcharge n boil over n outgas the battery !!!!! !!!!

Let me know

John T

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SMA in NE

11-13-2005 06:16:02




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 Re: This question is electrical ! in reply to John T, 11-12-2005 21:42:37  
I have a question for John T please. I purchased an older tractor (8n Ford), that had been converted to 12 volt with Delco alternator. Some wires were disconnected, two wires running to the coil one behind a resistor and one full twelve volts. Obviously a mixed up wiring job. My exciter wire is hooked into my ignition switch (hot when the switch is on) how do I keep current from feeding back into the coil? Should I have the exciter wire hooked to the non switched side? My tractor still runs when I shut the key off. I know this is a Farmall board but 8n's are red too.

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John T

11-13-2005 15:47:05




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 Re: This question is electrical ! in reply to SMA in NE, 11-13-2005 06:16:02  
SMA, I been gone all day but the diode Old mentioned will indeed prevent the alternator from backfeeding the coil when the ignitions off. Its a one way current flow check valve to put current into the alternator to excite it but NOT allow current out to feed the coil. HOWEVER I also like to use a 10 ohm current limiting protection circuit in the excitation circuit which can prevent harm to the internal diodes. The if she still runs on add the diode like Ol mentioned.

You want the exciter wire hooked to the switched (hot when ON) side to excite the alternator when you turn on the ignition and the resistor and diode (if necessary) will prevent run on when shes turned off.

John T

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old

11-13-2005 06:47:39




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 Re: This question is electrical ! in reply to SMA in NE, 11-13-2005 06:16:02  
I'm not Jhon but I maybe able to help you. You have 3 wires on an alternator. You have the big lug which goes to the amp gauge you have the #1 termanal which hooks up to the switch, but you need either a lite or diode in that wire, with out it your tractor gets feed back and keeps running. The #2 termanal hooks to the big lug on the alternator. My self I prefer the diode in line instead of the lite but either works well.

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