Once apon a time

This leads me to a question. Would it make sense to build a high compression gas engine in a more modern style farm tractor to compete with operating a diesel cost wise? I'm thinking a 560/706 Farmall or the like. By running E-85 you could boost the compression to well over 10 to 1 by using propane heads with domed pistons or even turbo charging or a combination of any of the three! As a side benefit running alcohol as a fuel will increase engine life substantially over running gas.

Oliver did just this in the late 50's with a four cylinder gas engine at 12 to 1 compression. It was powered by high octane gas and was said to give the economy of a diesel. They called it the XO-121. There is a picture of it in the Nebraska tets book. Anyone know any thing more about it?

One must also keep in mind that most gassers built in the 50's and 60's were designed to run on 70 octane gas for tractors. Rarely was compression over 7 to 1. At the same time however cars and trucks were all 9 to 1 minimum as they were designed to run on higher octane fuel.

I know first hand what a little more compression will do for a tractor. My Dad has a SMTA with a propane head built to a 450 bore. He also has a 450 (bought new by my Grandfather in '58). There is no comparision between the two. The SMTA is more responsive and a lot stronger. They don't even sound the same and they have the exact same muffler on each of them.

Any ideas or input?

Mark

Ref Bob M- FBO stands for Fixed Base Operator. Hes the guy runs the gas station at the airport. around the country av fuel is all over the place from 2.89 to 6.41 /gal.

1 – Re. that diesel is now priced $.40+ more than gasoline: It is simply free market forces at work. The demand for diesel - and it’s twin sister fuel oil - has increased dramatically over the past several years. Look at the sheer numbers of tractor trailers currently on the interstates compared to 10 – 20 years ago. And here in the northeast the large number of coal fired generating plants now converted to burn fuel oil. Consequently demand for this fuel has skyrocketed. Oil companies are merely charging what the market is willing to pay.

Here’s an analogy: Bottled water. The contents of a 16 oz bottle of product costs the manufacturer a fraction of a cent. Yet people willingly pay $1.25 for a 16 oz bottle - that’s $10 gallon – for tap water! But do you hear anyone complaining that the bottled water industry gouging the public? Nope - they're merely charging what customers are willing to pay.

2 – Re. high compression gasoline engine for tractors: Unfortunately fundamental thermodynamic differences between the Otto cycle (spark ignition) and the Diesel cycle prevent even the highest compression ratio gasoline engine from ever approaching the fuel efficiency of a diesel.

Beyond that, the price of the high octane fuel necessary to run a gasser at 11 or 12:1 compression is already insane. (100LL – 100 octane – aviation gas at the local FBO is $4.31/gal this morning). Pretty hard to compete when diesel is running $2.67 across the road!

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Don’t misunderstand my position here. I’m as bent about high diesel prices as anyone (I purchased a diesel P/U just as diesel prices began to take off a year ago.) But we’re living in a competitive, free market economy. Stuff like this happens.

Not to mention the huge increase in diesel powered pickups. 10 years ago only the heaviest used 3/4 and 1 tons were sold with diesel engines, now its common to see housewives lined up at a school building in with Cummins, Powerstoke and Duramax on the back of their heavy duty grocery getter.

In my district buses accumulate an aggregate of 10,600 miles PER SCHOOL DAY. Multiply that by the literally hundreds of school districts across the state. This alone represents a huge quantity of diesel fuel not being consumed 15 years ago!

The common saying around these parts is, when everyone was traveling, on vacation, etc. during the summer, the oil companies gouged us at the gas pumps. Now that we are all settled in for the winter, now they are going to gouge us on heating oil.

I'm sorry I don't have the answer for you but consider this, you may be on the right track. There is a lot greater segment of our population who own gas engines than diesel engines. For the most part those gas engines are owned by everyday consumers, while the diesels are owned by industry. We know full well the oil companies received a lot of backlash from everyone over the rapid increase back in the summer. My question is, have the oil companies decided rather than take heat from the masses, they will now just pass the increase on to industry and let them pass the cost on to the consumer in the goods and services they sell. I can tell you this, now in Dec 2005, when I go to the grocery store, auto parts store, farm store, hardware store, clothing store, etc. They are passing along their increased costs. And just who is taking the heat now, not the oil companies.

SORRY, I don't have the answer, it's your judgement call.