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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Super M 12V Not Charging at Idle

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Randy_NE

02-20-2006 06:24:03




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My farmer friend who has helped me on my H has a Super M that shows negitive charge when idle, it will charge at full throttle.
He was thinking about putting a smaller pulley on the 12V 2 wire Delco alternator to increase the RPM.
I told him I would ask here for ideas & or opinions.

Randy




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jossette

02-20-2006 14:18:00




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 Re: Super M 12V Not Charging at Idle in reply to Randy_NE, 02-20-2006 06:24:03  
I have the same pulley on my 400. I would agree that the diodes are shot. A good repair shop will get it done. Brushes, diode, and volt regulator.



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Brownie 45

02-20-2006 08:26:47




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 Re: Super M 12V Not Charging at Idle in reply to Randy_NE, 02-20-2006 06:24:03  
Maybe we should back up a space here, & look at the fan & generator belts first, & then look at fan/ water pump bearings or alternator bearings dragging. Easier to check than getting into the alternator.



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Brownie 45

02-20-2006 08:14:14




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 Re: Super M 12V Not Charging at Idle in reply to Randy_NE, 02-20-2006 06:24:03  
The first thing that comes to mind, is you should check the diode trio in the alternator. Sounds like you have two out of the three sections open. I've had two alternators with this very thing wrong, so it's not at all uncommon. The diode trio supplies the field with it's current-voltage. Check it with an ohmmeter on the X1 scale. Should read infinity one direction & about 30 to 40 ohms with the leads reversed, on all three leads, if it is good. If bad, one or more leads will show open[infinity] in both directions.

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Randy_NE

02-20-2006 06:57:27




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 Re: Super M 12V Not Charging at Idle in reply to Randy_NE, 02-20-2006 06:24:03  
Thanks Guys!

I will pass the info along. We meassured the outside diameter of the original pully and it was 3.125".
The one he is thinking about putting on is 2.5".

Randy



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Bus Driver

02-20-2006 16:03:10




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 Re: Super M 12V Not Charging at Idle in reply to Randy_NE, 02-20-2006 06:57:27  
A smaller pulley greatly increases the heating of the belt. As the belt flexes, it creates internal heat. The heat shortens the belt life dramatically. Automotive belts are formulated for more heat resistance than ordinary V-belts. Notches in the belt help reduce heat build up. If the belt is easy to change, short life may not matter so much. But on a Cub, for example, belt changing is quite a task.

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Janicholson

02-20-2006 06:49:33




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 Re: Super M 12V Not Charging at Idle in reply to Randy_NE, 02-20-2006 06:24:03  
Most generator systems do not charge (enough to pull in the cutout relay) at idle. If the engine is reved, the gen will charge. If the engine is then idled back down, the generator will stay running through the cutout relay for a second or two until the reverse current through the cutout relay clicks it open. During this "still closed" time the amp gauge will show as much as 5-8 amps discharge. then snap back to a small discharge 2-3 amps (unless the lights are on).
It will not hurt anything to run a smaller pulley. I think reducing the pulley by about 1/3 of its original circumference (so it has 1/3 less circumference) would be operational. Circumference = pi times diameter.
If the pulley is too small the belt will slip (or be too tight to keep it from slipping, ruining bearings and belt). Be sure to match the width, alignment, and V angle of the original belt to assure proper function, not all belts have the same angle.
Go for it,
JimN

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Correct Police

02-20-2006 12:19:53




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 Re: Super M 12V Not Charging at Idle in reply to Janicholson, 02-20-2006 06:49:33  
The man has a 12V ALTERNATOR not a generator, there are no cut outs on a alternator.



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Janicholson

02-20-2006 12:23:24




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 Re: Super M 12V Not Charging at Idle in reply to Correct Police, 02-20-2006 12:19:53  
I stand in humble pie up to my neck. I committed the blunder and seak forgiveness.
JimN



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Janicholson

02-20-2006 10:55:52




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 Re: Super M 12V Not Charging at Idle in reply to Janicholson, 02-20-2006 06:49:33  
The pulley content is correct though,
JimN



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Bob M

02-20-2006 06:38:53




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 Re: Super M 12V Not Charging at Idle in reply to Randy_NE, 02-20-2006 06:24:03  
Most likely the alternator is spinning too slow. A smaller pulley will spin it faster and should help. (Use the smallest pulley you can find - on the Super M there's no risk of spinning the alternator too fast!)

The other (long shot) possiblity is the alternator is failing - a quick trip to the parts store for the free alternator output test can verify.



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