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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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H wont turn over

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Ole' Farmall

06-12-2006 12:28:06




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I have a Farmall H that was given to me and it wont even turn over. The battery is fully charged with out the positive cable on. As soon as you put the positive cable on the battery, the battery just drops dead as soon as you put it on the battery. Any help would be appreacited Ryan




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M nutt

06-13-2006 10:58:08




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 Re: H wont turn over in reply to Ole' Farmall, 06-12-2006 12:28:06  
I had a M that did same thing -installed New batttery and problm was resolved



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KEB

06-12-2006 21:53:46




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 Re: H wont turn over in reply to Ole' Farmall, 06-12-2006 12:28:06  
What do you mean by "battery just drops dead"? If there's a short big enough to rapidly discharge the battery, you'd get a huge spark when you connected the cable to the terminal, and the connector/cable would get hot & start to smoke in short order. A starting battery can supply enough energy to melt even a large cable if its feeding a direct short.

Do you mean that you connect the battery, push the starter button, & and nothing happens? If so, look for a bad starter switch. Feel the starter, if it gets warm, the switch is OK but there's something mechanically binding the starter.

There should be no load on the battery when the starter switch is off, and if you have distributor ignition, the ignition switch is off. If there's a load on the battery without the starter switch or ignition switch engaged, you have a short circuit somewhere.

The only way a battery could be immediately discharged & not create a bunch of heat & smoke would be if the battery itself is bad.

Need some additional details & a better description of the problem.

Keith

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Ole' Farmall

06-12-2006 17:19:05




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 Re: H wont turn over in reply to Ole' Farmall, 06-12-2006 12:28:06  
Ok i was wrong i also know some people that are retarted to. I guess i should not have said it but it was olny out of anger. Sorry Ryan



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John T

06-12-2006 13:40:01




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 Re: H wont turn over in reply to Ole' Farmall, 06-12-2006 12:28:06  
Ryan, When you say the battery just drops dead when the cable is attched, I first question just how good the battery is ??? along with bad grounds n bad/burned/loose connections.

The first thing I would do (after checking connections, see below) is have the battery Load Tested at a shop. I say this cuz if its in any decent shape at all, when you connect a very low resistance load (enough to zap it quickly) or a dead short across it, there would be severe heat n sparks n arcing and even a potential battery explosion and/or burned cables. If it hardly sparks when you attach that cable (i.e. low current drain) but its still instantly zapped of its energy storage n voltage, I REALLY SUSPECT A BAD BATTERY which a load test will indicate, unless theres a bad ground or cable or connection. Look n see if theres electrolyte above all the plates and if any cells exhibit a gray or milky appearance????? ????? ???

If a minor high resistance short were present and you made that last battery cable connection, there could be a small spark, but the battery (if any good at all) should still stay up for quite a while depending on the shorts resistance and resultant current draw.

It will help if we know just what kind of spark or heat or sizzling happens when you attach that cable????? ????? ????? ????? ??

Next, there shouldnt be any current draw load out of the battery (to drop its voltage any at all) when you connect it UNLESS theres a SHORT like in the wiring,,,,, ,,or the starter switch,,,,, ,or a battery cable etc. Unless the starter switch is bad, the starter shouldnt be engaged until the switch is activated and its a real low resistance path that draws high current which could zap the battery fairly quickly BUTTTTT TTTTT if thats so, I would expect some heat or sizzling and/or pretty good sparks when the battery cable is attached.

Other things to look at are the battery cables for any missing insulation or shorts to the tractor or burn marks etc.

SECOND SUSPECT: Often when one thinks the battery is bad and/or she wont crank the starter etc IS CUZ THE GROUND CONNECTION IS BAD OR BURNED OR HIGH RESISTANCE. A bad or loose or corroded frame ground or the battery cable or even a loose ground at the battery or anywhere will cause loads to not operate and voltages to be low and might make one think the battery is zapped, when in fact, its a bad or loose or burned ground.

ANOTHER SUSPECT: Most all smaller loads and the big starter load take off where the big battery cable attaches to a starter switch. I would check that connection and the cable from the battery to the starter and both battery cable ends at the battery. If theres a high resistance connection present, voltage drops across it leaving lesser voltage at the actual loads and one may think the battery is bad, when again, its a connection NOT the battery itself causing the problem.

SUMMARY I would remove, clean n wire brush, n reattach each n every battery n starter n ground cable n switch n starter connection,,,,, ,,,,, ,,NEXT if the battery is suspect have it load tested and/or try another know good battery suspect and check its electrolyte and for gray milky cells,,,,, ,,NEXT Did I mention check the ground lol and if the ground cable is attached to any thin or rusty sheet metal, remove it n reattach to a solid heavy frame member bolt etc GOTTA HAVE A GOOD SOLID GROUND N GROUND CABLE N CONNECTIONS!!!!! !

FINALLY, if its NOT a battery or cable or connection or a grounding problem, just that the starter doesnt crank (That what you mean???) have a voltmeter on the battery and/or the lights on and watch what happens when you engage the starter switch..... ..If the lights dim way down and/or the battery voltage drops drastically, I suspect the starter is bad HOWEVER if the lights dont dim much nor the battery voltage drop, I suspect a bad starter switch.

Check the cables n connections n grounds and the battery and let us know, good luck n God Bless

John T Retired Electrical Engineer

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ff316

06-12-2006 13:20:32




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 Re: H wont turn over in reply to Ole' Farmall, 06-12-2006 12:28:06  
Real stupid question...is the engine stuck?



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Ole' Farmall

06-12-2006 14:02:58




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 Re: H wont turn over in reply to ff316, 06-12-2006 13:20:32  
hey ff316 your question is stupid if the engine was stuck who would try to turn it over. RETARD



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gene bender

06-12-2006 19:01:48




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 Re: H wont turn over in reply to Ole' Farmall, 06-12-2006 14:02:58  
you have several tractors correct? when you hook up a battery and something goes wrong better check where the cables go before you explode the battery. you didnt say how the starter was wired. maybe there is a good reason why the tractor was free. strange questions can get strange answers.



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John M

06-12-2006 14:43:08




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 Re: H wont turn over in reply to Ole' Farmall, 06-12-2006 14:02:58  
I think you may have taken his responce the wrong way. I took as "I know this is a stupid question,but is the engine locked up?" I do agree,the term "retard" was totally uncalled for.If you had someone in your family who was mentally retarted,you may think twice about using the term as slaong!



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Now that's offensive

06-12-2006 14:28:28




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 Re: H wont turn over in reply to Ole' Farmall, 06-12-2006 14:02:58  
Using that term is totally inappropriate. Shame on you.

You said you had just gotten the tractor and it wouldn't turn over. My first thought of an engine that won't turn over is that it is stuck, or the tractor is locked in two gears, etc.

Be more specific when you ask a question... Has the tractor ever run before? Are you connecting the positive terminal to ground?



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Andy Martin

06-12-2006 14:19:47




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 Re: H wont turn over in reply to Ole' Farmall, 06-12-2006 14:02:58  
Your sharp answer to someone trying to help you is uncalled for. If you were so smart you could have thought through this problem on your own.

I realize you don't need my advice, but since I know some retarded people, and they have my respect, I must say it is very poor taste to use the term "retard" in such a slanderous way.

By the way, if you find out your Bendix is stuck in the flywheel you'll know the engine was stuck after all.

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souNdguy

06-12-2006 12:50:40




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 Re: H wont turn over in reply to Ole' Farmall, 06-12-2006 12:28:06  
2 things...

1st.. you have a short in the battery cables.. perhaps at the starter switch.

2nd.. You have a bad battery...if it goes dead immediatly. A good battery has enough juice to melt a battery cable in half in a few seconds if there is a short..

Both need attention.

I'd hook an ohm meter up to the bat cables and then start pulling wires till the needle went to infinite ohms..

Soundguy

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Ole' Farmall

06-12-2006 12:46:29




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 Re: H wont turn over in reply to Ole' Farmall, 06-12-2006 12:28:06  
Its on the starter swich side not down neer the genorator right?



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Tom O

06-12-2006 12:34:10




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 Re: H wont turn over in reply to Ole' Farmall, 06-12-2006 12:28:06  
It sounds like the starter is shorted to ground. If you have an ohm meter read the + lead from the battery to ground and see if reads. I would then start taking + wires off until the short goes away. It may also be a shorted to ground starter switch as well.



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RN

06-12-2006 12:32:56




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 Re: H wont turn over in reply to Ole' Farmall, 06-12-2006 12:28:06  
Short someplace- switch perhaps. Time for circuit tester.RN



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