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O.T. Question for John T

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Karl Hamson

08-04-2006 07:57:54




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John, I am restoring a 1923 Hudson Super Six which I pulled completely to bits in 1968. It has a very early Delco electrical system with combined starter/generator etc. My question is about the condenser which is external to the distributor and very unique as it is large and flat. Is there any way to test a condenser to determine if it is OK? It would look totally wrong to use a modern cylindrical one. While on the topic I would like to thank you for your many posts in response to the questions of others. Your answers are always very clear and very helpful.

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Brownie 45

08-05-2006 14:26:07




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 Re: O.T. Question for John T in reply to Karl Hamson, 08-04-2006 07:57:54  
I read in an older Delco ignition manual, that the condenser aided in the build-up & collapse of the magnetic field in the coil.



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Karl Hamson

08-04-2006 12:12:40




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 Re: O.T. Question for John T in reply to Karl Hamson, 08-04-2006 07:57:54  
Thanks guys. At least I know now how to check it out to see of it is bad.



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John T

08-04-2006 10:48:39




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 Re: O.T. Question for John T in reply to Karl Hamson, 08-04-2006 07:57:54  
Karl, EXCELLENT explanations from IH with which I totally agree. Heres another take on your question.

OKAY, I can tell you how to test a condensor with an old fashioned analog swinging needle type ohmmeter which will tell if its DEFINITELY BAD HOWEVER IT WONT TELL IF ITS GOOD>>>>>>>>> i.e. just cuz it passes, it could still be bad and you really need a regular capacitance tester to tell the full story.

Place an analog ohmmeter (like my old Simpson 260 or RCA WV38A etc) on the R x 1 scale,,,,,first discharge the condensor by temporarily jumping its leads/case together, then attach the ohmmeter and it should read like an open circuit of infinity ohms. If not say it reads a few or even several hundred ohms, its bad/shorted.

Nest again discharge it, place the meter on the R x 10000 scale, attach it across the meter and it should initially swing over towards a short circuit reading as the condensor charges up but then shortly "kick back" over to open near infinity ohms once its charged. If it dont it BAD.

A condensor to DC is initially a short circuit as its charging up but once charged its like an open circuit to DC passing no more current as the charges are built up opposite on the opposing plates.

Caution about sticking just any old condensor on there as if its NOT the correct capaciatnce rating (usually something in the microfarads range) the points will burn up quicker and/or the spark will be weaker. The coil will still fire with NO or a bad open condensor like IH told ya but the spark will be weaker. IH raised another good point in that if sized correctly the points build up evenly on both sides since the initial inrush of electrons from the coil in one direction (like when points open) is balanced by the return current flow when the points close and the condensor discharges.

Electrons have mass ya knowa and flow/arc across the points and into n out of the condensor which is like a big open unfilled bank just sittin there waiting to absorb some of the inrush of electrons when the points open. The electron inrush is from the coils inductance and the magnetic energy stored and when the points open current realllll llllyyyyy yyyy wants to keep flowing somewhere and would arc a bunch across the points BUT FOR the big open unfilled electron bank condensor sittin there screaming come in here come in here lol that way theres less arcing at the points n they dont burn up so soon.

I appreciate your kind words of thanks. When I was a young kid my grandfather n uncles n neighbors alllll llll helped me so I figure now that Im older its payback time and I enjoy helping others. I give electrical seminars at several of the national John Deere shows and used to write for the Green Magazine, its a fun hobby in my semi retirement years.

Yall take care n God Bles now,

John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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Karl Hamson

08-04-2006 08:55:55




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 Re: O.T. Question for John T in reply to Karl Hamson, 08-04-2006 07:57:54  
Now I am really going to show my ignorance. What exactly is the purpose of the condenser??



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IH2444

08-04-2006 09:04:54




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 Re: O.T. Question for John T in reply to Karl Hamson, 08-04-2006 08:55:55  
It is to quench the voltage spike coming out of the coil primary to keep the points from burning up.

An open condensor will burn points up quickly.
A condensor with too little capacitance will cause a spike to form on one contact, too much capacitance will cause the spike to form on the other contact.
A shorted condensor will prevent the engine from running.



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IH2444

08-04-2006 08:30:10




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 Re: O.T. Question for John T in reply to Karl Hamson, 08-04-2006 07:57:54  
Not John T, but the rule of thumb I always used on dist condensors is it the points burn evenly on both contacts then the condensor is ok. I have a capacitor/condensor checker that works pretty well and some DMM's have this capacity as well.
The DMM capacitance tests do not put high voltage spikes on the condensor but do a pretty good test.
Ben



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