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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Rings for H

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Tom Windsor

12-10-2006 19:29:03




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As many of you know, I have an H project tractor going on here and I am having fun with it.

No matter how I cut it, it is sucking oil in the #4 cylinder and I am going to go in there and check it out. I have about 70 # compression on that cylinder...I think way too low..and it smokes a little. I take the plug wire off #4 and it quits smoking...so I am burning oil.

I dropped the pan tonight and removed the head. I am sending the head out tomorrow to get the valves ground while I am doing the other stuff.

I have no motor experience but I learn quick.

Here is what is going on inside my head. Tomorrow I intend to take just one Piston out, #4 so I can see just what ring set goes in there...best I can tell, there are 2 or 3 different types and widths depending on the piston.

Here is the question that I need some guidance on.

One hole at a time, I need to understand the inspection procedure to determine the sleeve wear to determine whether it is in tolerance for a new set of standard rings or whether I am a candidate for new pistons and sleeves.

If someone has experience with this and can give me the A,B,Cs, as I said, I can follow directions.

As a note, I have good oil pressure, and the engine does not knock or rattle...so, I will not be messing with the bearings on this go around. Just going to put APPROPRIATE new set of rings in it--if, keeping my fingers crossed, possible.

TW

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El Toro

12-12-2006 10:23:20




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 Re: Rings for H in reply to Tom Windsor, 12-10-2006 19:29:03  
If you have an auto tech school in your area they
would have the micrometers to measure your sleeve and piston. They may be willing to do that measuring for you. If they are willing I would have the sleeves measured for wear. Hal



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midlam

12-11-2006 08:10:02




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 Re: Rings for H in reply to Tom Windsor, 12-10-2006 19:29:03  
1) push a new ring to the top of wear zone and measure gap with feelers.
2) push same ring down to bottom of cylinder and measure gap again.
3) to get taper: subtract first measurement from second measurement then devide by 3
If less than .005 taper and pistons are not really shined up on the wear side ,then maybe rering.



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Janicholson

12-11-2006 07:10:21




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 Re: Rings for H in reply to Tom Windsor, 12-10-2006 19:29:03  
Tom,
With no piston at the top, (2" down will do) put your fingers in the bore and feel, with a finger nail, for a ridge at the point on the cylinder that the top ring stops. If it is easily noted, the wear is probably too much to repair with rings alone. If it is just barely detectable, it is a good idea to measure the bore with a bore gauge across aeveral angles to assure a good average measurement(machinest's tool). The difference between the bore measurement at the max wear point (just below the ridge) and at the bottom of the bore (measured at the bottom of the sleeve (about 1/2" up from the bottom. will give the taper. In my opinion if it is more than .005, I would sleeve it. In the case that it is OK, it is necessary to ridge ream the cylinder to remove the ridge (special tool, not hard) this allows the rings to go all the way to the top of their travel without hitting the ridge and breaking!!! Hone the cylinder/s after ridge reaming with a bead style glaze breaker at or near a 45 degree hone mark angle with a 350 (or so)grit bead hone to allow the rings to seat. Good luck, JimN

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GordoSD

12-11-2006 06:15:03




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 Re: Rings for H in reply to Tom Windsor, 12-10-2006 19:29:03  
Pull the piston and the rings. Remove the rings from piston. Keep them sorted same side up as when installed. Put one ring at a time back in the sleeve, and use a feeler gauge to check the end gap. Tolerances are in your manual. Chances are high they will be WAY out of tolerance. NOw put the piston back in, without the rings on it. Check the gap between the piston and the sleeve. If it's within tolerances just replace the rings. It's pretty inexpensive to just put in new sleeve, piston and rings. Just check and see if you are standard (2 3/4) or oversize.

Gordo

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JayWalt

12-10-2006 19:56:56




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 Re: Rings for H in reply to Tom Windsor, 12-10-2006 19:29:03  
Tom, while I dont have the experience or manuals to tell you what the bore spec should be or how to exactly go about doing it, I have a few tips for you. First, do u have the equipment to properly measure the sleeve bore? a yardstick wont work here =P.

One VERY VERY VERY important thing to do is to check for sleeve/cylinder taper. I had a 4.3L chevy engine I tore down to replace the seals cause I though the head gasket was blown. I replaced all the seals, just did a wiggle test of the pistons cause i wasnt looking to mess with them, just wanted to make sure they werent really loose. Well I only checked them in one spot, turns out later right before putting the head on, i had moved the crank to time it so the pistons were nearly 180 from what they were, and turns out one of the cylinders was serverely tapered. I had it almost all done, so i just through the head on and put it back in the truck. It burns oil in that one cylinder now, almost 1 quart for every 100 miles. I recycle my car's old oil that way and its just a hauler truck, not a daily driver. Also gotta replace the sparkplug every 1000 or so miles, but I got a boxful of those plugs, so It's not a big deal, too bad its the hardest one to get to. If I had known at the onset of the regasketing, I would have returned the gasket kit and threw in anouther 100 and got a used engine to throw in it. Hindsight is 20/20 and I leearned a valuable lession that time. Be sure to check at the top, middle, and bottom of the sleeve. I know I'm making a long post, but it would suck for someone to have an experience like I did, Not a good day that day, I tell ya.

I would also make sure u prelube the new rings/piston with some oil or assembly lube.

They do sell individual one piston/sleeve kits if you just need to replace that #4 p/s. Hope I helped a little.

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Tom Windsor

12-10-2006 20:02:52




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 Re: Rings for H in reply to JayWalt, 12-10-2006 19:56:56  
Jay Thank you for your notes and thoughts.



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