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How do you know if they're bad?

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Slappy

06-23-2007 06:09:09

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The recent spate of transmission overhauls (I"m in the middle of one now myself) has brought up the issue of reuse of old bearings. If a bearing is hard to get at, and reasonably inexpensive I typically change it. But the transmission bearings can be pretty high dollar, and one could spend $$$$$ changing them all.

Obviously, damaged, broken and scored bearings need to be changed. But what of bearings that show no overt signs of damage?

What tricks, or "rules-of-thumb" do you all use to tell if a bearing is too worn to reuse???

Thanks in advance.

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JFAVOR

06-23-2007 19:34:33

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Re: How do you know if they're bad? in reply to Slappy, 06-23-2007 06:09:09

Thanks for the info. My tranny is not only noisy but feels loose. Probably due to loose /worn bearings. Thanks for mentioning that. Looks like I'll have to tear it all the way down to be sure.

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Bob Kerr

06-23-2007 08:57:42

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Re: How do you know if they're bad? in reply to Slappy, 06-23-2007 06:09:09

The tranny on mine when I got it was noisy and I changed the oil in it only to find mostly water and a few small bearing peices came out with it. Plus the LR axle bearings were bad when I checked them as the seal leaked like a seive. That was when the desision was made that I better find at least the bad bearing. when I took it apart there was hard flakes (off the balls mostly) in the low spots of the case. All that hard metal flowed through the other bearings and did them no favors. When I would take a bearing out I put my fingers in the center hole and would spin the outer part. If it was noisy, it would be real noisy with a load on it. I would also note the slop in the center part vs the outer. When I held the new axle bearings and spun those, there was no question about how bad the old ones were! I only found ONE bearing in the rear and tranny That might have been ok to use for a parade tractor, it was fairly quiet and had minimum slop. The worst bearing had half of the retainer gone and one ball missing which I never found inside, so someone must have drained it out at one point and sold it off to someone so they wouldn't have to fix it who sold to someone else, who sold it to me. I would like to take it on a tractor drive or the occasional work session, and now I know it will last me for 40+ years I hope. I suppose the best way to know if a bearing is bad is to hold it in your hand! I know this , I won't buy another tractor unless I can see and hear it move! I learned my lesson.

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JFAVOR

06-23-2007 07:49:51

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Re: How do you know if they're bad? in reply to Slappy, 06-23-2007 06:09:09

The tranny on my 51 H is really growling. I thought cleaning it and changing the fluid would help. If anything it's worse. With the engine running in neutral I can still hear it. I think there are 4 bearings in there? correct? Should I plan on replacing all four? Are there any bushings in there that need replacing as well? Do I pull the differential apart while I'm there? Don't really want to.

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Slappy

06-23-2007 10:08:25

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Re: How do you know if they're bad? in reply to JFAVOR, 06-23-2007 07:49:51

The transmission in my 44 H rumbles a bit in neutral but I think this is normal, as I hear similar noise in others. If you hear transmission noise above the engine noise, that would seem excessive to me.

I haven"t gotten all the bearings out of the M yet, but I believe that there are two on each axle, two on the main drive gear and another in the casting between the differential and transmission, two on the countershaft, one rear PTO bearing, two pulley bearings (although you probably won"t need to change those since you are not likely to use anything belt driven), and two pinion bearings. So there may be 15+ bearings to replace.

If you get the mainshaft and countershaft out, its not too tough (just heavy) to get the bull and pinion gears out, so I would do it all at once. I"m taking Bob"s advice and swithcing sides on the pinion and bull gears to get a new surface.

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Bob Kerr

06-23-2007 11:24:01

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Re: How do you know if they're bad? in reply to Slappy, 06-23-2007 10:08:25

Hey slappy, The worst bearing in my H was on the LR bull pinion inner. That was the one where peices came out,I would definatly check those while you are in there. IH has the O rings for the bearing cages, a bit pricy but I didn't want leaks in the brake housings. I think one of those bearings is the same as the inner axle bearing. There are 15 if you count the PTO, which I didn't change(yet!) I probly should have gone ahead and done that one too.

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Bob Kerr

06-23-2007 09:50:24

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Re: How do you know if they're bad? in reply to JFAVOR, 06-23-2007 07:49:51

There are two bearings on the main input shaft, and a pilot bearing where that shaft meets the one that holds the sliding gears and another near the pinion shaft at the rear. on the lower shaft there are two bearings, front and rear. One each of the bull pinion gears there are 2 bearings there on each side. Finally there are 2 bearings for each axle shaft. Sould be 14 total. Bushings I found are 2 on the reverse idler gear, one in the rear of the lower trans shaft for the PTO and 1 each for the brakes pivot pins for 5 total. there are also 6 oil seals total. If you get bearings, go to a bearing house!!!!you can find them in the yellow pages. Give them the IH part numbers and they can cross reference them. Saved me a TON of $$$ IH wanted something like 197 each for axle bearings and The bearing house had them for 67! They had seals also!

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NDS

06-23-2007 07:18:40

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Re: How do you know if they're bad? in reply to Slappy, 06-23-2007 06:09:09

If you have a 2000 hour a year tractor change them all. If you have a hobby, show or parade tractor a bearing that looks good to experienced eye will probaly last a lifetime if it has plrnty of good clean lubrication.

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NDS

06-23-2007 07:45:46

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Re: How do you know if they're bad? in reply to NDS, 06-23-2007 07:18:40

You are right in todays world back in my time on farm we ran 16 to 24 hours a day in land preparaton season, from 6 AM to sundown for about 3 months cultivating and Dad did not believe in down time when we plowed over we started over again if weather permmited. In fall tractors were on road hauling cotton and corn several hours a day and in winter they were used for logging and sawing firewood as well as other chores.

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Allan In NE

06-23-2007 07:26:16

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Re: How do you know if they're bad? in reply to NDS, 06-23-2007 07:18:40

2,000 a year tractor? I kind of doubt it.

That's 12 solid hours a day; no fueling and never stopping for what? Over 5 months a year?

Heck, I can put 20 years on 'em and probably wouldn't hit 2,000 hours. :>)

Allan

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Janicholson

06-23-2007 06:40:08

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Re: How do you know if they're bad? in reply to Slappy, 06-23-2007 06:09:09

Shaggy is basically correct. If you have a good magnifying glass, careful surface analysis can find brenelling (dents) on working surfaces. Ball bearings have built in clearance, if this is out of spec, they are worn out and will cause misalignment of shafts resulting in additional wear, or noise, or both. Most components of antifriction bearings are case hardened or treated for extreeme hardness (nitriding) the thickness of these treatments is limited, and even if they appear to look smooth, they may be beyond their service life. JimN

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Shaggy M

06-23-2007 06:25:18

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Re: How do you know if they're bad? in reply to Slappy, 06-23-2007 06:09:09

I was always told If in doubt change it out!
If you have some really trashed bearing in a few places change them all. Shaggy

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