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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Super C won't start?

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Dan(Mass)

07-14-2007 17:25:07




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I picked up this Super C a few weeks ago and no matter what I do I can"t get her running. I can usually can getem running in a few hours. I replaced the ignition parts including coil, ignition key switch, starter rebuilt and new switch. New battery and cables. New wire to the coil. Valves were stuck, but I was able to get them free after soaking them. removed and cleaned the carb. I have compression, spark, and fuel. If I squirt some fuel done the manifold It will pop and shoot a flame out of the manifold pipe and the carb. I believe the timing is ok because the points are open when the number 1 cylinder is up. Any help would be appreciated.

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John-Paul T

07-15-2007 14:28:16




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-14-2007 17:25:07  
Just to clerify

-Stroke one-

Fuel drawn into cylinder -intake vale open, piston travels downward (intake cycle)

Piston move back up and compresses fuel so its more explosive (called compresion stroke)

Ignition fires JUST after TDC of piston and then forces piston down again (this is call the power stroke)

Piston travels back up as exhasut vavle opens just after BDC bottom dead center (exhaust)

End of cycle now it repeats drawing fule back in on its way down.

Intake
Compresion
Power Stroke
Exhaust

See if your on exhaust and poping out exhaust your way off.

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John-Paul T

07-15-2007 14:21:19




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-14-2007 17:25:07  
I agree. No doubt its timing. Your firing a cylinder that has the exhasut vavle open, thats the ONLY way it will pop out exhaust as you described. From cars to tractors they exhibit same symptoms when timing off. If firing order is 180o off its like have vavle timing 180o as your firing out of order. You need to check with eye to eliminate all possibilites.

Do what you know is right with a 4 stroke.

Get #1 piston TDC (top dead center). Now rock the crank back and forth till you JUST feel (using a wooden handle spoon put in spark plug hole works) the piston lower. Now have it at just after TDC is what Im saying. Piston at top JUST starting down, maybe 1/10 of a inch at most. HERE is where it should fire! To be technical its about 10o after TDC which is common and good enough to start about anything. From there you need to fine tune it of course.

To verify your in right order and not 180 out you can continue checking by eye with vavle cover off. Your at TDC just ready to fire one, move piston down entire way On way back UP the exhaust vavle should open. Garunteed you NOT out of order then.

When all else fails go with what you know and that is how all 4 strokes work.

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El Toro

07-15-2007 04:03:07




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-14-2007 17:25:07  
Your plug wires are crossed. They need to be in this order. Hal

2-1
4-3 PS: The rotor turns CW.



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georgeky

07-15-2007 07:46:51




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to El Toro, 07-15-2007 04:03:07  
Hal, never mind I see you have it written in the order as it would look on the cap. I had been wondering about this though. I guess I never thouhgt of it like that before.



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georgeky

07-15-2007 07:44:01




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to El Toro, 07-15-2007 04:03:07  
Hal, I am missing something. Please explain. All Farmall tractors have 1342 firing order. The rotar turns clockwise. Starting at the number one tower which is marked in most case with a 1. The wires have to be put in the CW 1342 order to be right. I have seen lots of folks post this 2143 and want to know what the deal is with that.



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El Toro

07-15-2007 09:07:40




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to georgeky, 07-15-2007 07:44:01  
I think their numbers run together when they post them. I always put mine along the left side like this: Hal

2-1
3-4 PS: Viewed from the cap as the rotor turns CW.



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georgeky

07-15-2007 11:38:03




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to El Toro, 07-15-2007 09:07:40  
Hal, I reread your post after I posted and figured that out. I had seen them posted as 2143 and wondered what in the world was going on with some of these guys. It makes since to me now.



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Hugh MacKay

07-14-2007 17:56:19




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-14-2007 17:25:07  
Dan: Have you by chance placed the plug wires in the cap backwards to rotation of distributor? I did that by accident, in a hurry one night and my 130 acted exactly as you describe. Number 1 and 4 will still be correct and 2 and 3 crossed.



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Dan( Mass)

07-15-2007 04:06:17




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 07-14-2007 17:56:19  
I guess now I'm not sure where the number one plug wire needs to go on the cap? If anyone could tell me I'd appreciate it. I maybe getting closer to resolving this.

Currently I have the number one wire on the upper right corner ( as if this was a square ) and rotated around clockwise placing the wires in there firing order. So theres a chance that isn't the number one place holder.



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El Toro

07-15-2007 11:51:27




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to Dan( Mass), 07-15-2007 04:06:17  
third party image

Here's a picture of a mag and No1 plug wire is around 1 o'clock. You can see the plug wires going to plugs in the correct firing order. Don't get shook up about an ignition coil in the picture. The mag was converted to a distributor.

You need to have No1 piston to TDC on the compression stroke and see where the rotor is pointing. Hal

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Dan(Mass)

07-15-2007 15:26:03




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to El Toro, 07-15-2007 11:51:27  
Thanks Hal!,

This is how I have mine wired up. Although It appears your cap is turned more than mine. About an inch. I'll have to bring number 1 up and start from there. I'm not sure when I bring number 1 up should the points be open or closed?



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El Toro

07-15-2007 16:55:14




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-15-2007 15:26:03  
third party image

Don't worry about the points as long as they're set at .013". Bring No1 piston to TDC on the compression stroke and then see where the rotor is pointing. You need a helper, one to watch the screwdriver rise after you feel compression against your thumb and one to slowly hand crank the engine. Once the piston is at TDC ( its there when it quits rising) look to see where the rotor is and also the notch on the damper pulley
should be at the pointer.

If the notch is off you may have a sheared woodruff key on the cam gear. No1 piston and the
notch (timing mark) are all related in an engine.
Not only is your ignition related, but your valves
too. If the key happens to shear it will throw off the valve timing too. Hal
PS: Here's an IH distributor and No1 plug wire goes in the top right hole of the cap.

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ScottyHOMEy

07-15-2007 07:21:29




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to Dan( Mass), 07-15-2007 04:06:17  
My #1 is actually closer to 10 o'clock, meaning closer to the engine, but that doesn't mean yours is.

Best thing is to start from scratch. While you're turning the engine with the cap off, check to make sure the points are opening and closing properly. When you get the engine to the top of the firing stroke on #1, put your rotor button back on. Where it lines up is where your #1 wire will go. In case it's somehow got turned way out of time, you might try putting the cap on temporarily and mark the distributor body where the tower for #1 lines up, then remove the cap and make sure the rotor is pointing fairly close to that mark. If not loosen it up and turn the body until the mark lines up better with the rotor, then tighten ity back down beofre putting the rest of the wires on your cap and closing her up.

1-3-4-2, clockwise

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Dan(Mass)

07-14-2007 18:15:47




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 07-14-2007 17:56:19  
I've double checked the placement of the wires a number of times. They're set up like this on the cap: 2 1 4 3

I'm starting to think something is up with the timing. I'll try moving all the wires over 2 hops. Maybe it's out 180 degrees. Like one of the fellas said.



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ScottyHOMEy

07-14-2007 19:30:40




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-14-2007 18:15:47  
Dan, Hugh is on the right track.

Correct firing order is 1-3-4-2. If I'm reading your post correctly, you've got 3 and 4 crossed.

Get #1 onto the post on the cap as marked, and go clockwise around the cap, viewed from the outside of the cap.



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Janicholson

07-14-2007 17:47:47




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-14-2007 17:25:07  
Move the sparkplug wires two cap tower posts ahead of where they are and try it. 180 out of time is that symptom. JimN ---Keep us informed.



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Andy Motteberg

07-14-2007 17:34:08




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 Re: Super C won't start? in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-14-2007 17:25:07  
I think it sounds like the timing is incorrect. My H shot fire from the exhaust when it was not timed



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