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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Hydraulic system diagnosis on a 100 please guys!!!! :)

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Patrick Martin

08-03-2007 23:25:58




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Hey guys, I have run across another problem today while using my 100. I picked up my set of discs and as usual went about my way to the garden to eat it up a little more but in the short distance from the "implement alley" (what I call it) to the garden I noticed the drawbar starting to quiver a little more than usual. This happens under load/when I pick something up and usually clears up if I open the gas up a little but this time it's gotten much worse and it seems to be taunting me to bust the wrench out on it.

I lifted my discs, hopped off the tractor, and sat on them while suspended to see what it felt like. With me on it it drops a little but feels like it's lifting but then roughly every 10 seconds or so it "jolts", loses a half of and inch of lift or so then tries to catch up.
This is what I feel when I'm sitting on it. It's not such a sharp jolt or bounce with just the discs but with me on there I can feel it when it pulses like that.
After I get off I can hear the pump whine a little. It makes a sort of bree-bree-bree whining sound before it is quiet again. It's not loud but I am able to notice it.

Has anyone had this type of thing happen before and know exactly what it is? Yes I have flushed the hyrdaulic box and cleaned the filter screen so it's not that. There is no water in this system as I've drained it many times while flushing it. THIS SYSTEM DOES NOT LEAK! I have no leaks at all. Could it be the pump? if it is then how in the heck can you rebuld it? Do they make oversize impellers or something? Doesn't seem like much could go wrong with the pump.

Could it be bypassing internally in the box? If so how hard is it to fix this?

Do I need to add something to the oil like a thickener or Lucas or something? Would it help or at least serve as a diagnosis?

Sorry for the mess again guys. I use this thing allot and I'm still working some of the bugs out.
Pat

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Idaho Ron

08-07-2007 19:49:28




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 Re: Hydraulic system diagnosis on a 100 please guys!!!! :) in reply to Patrick Martin, 08-03-2007 23:25:58  
Since I think I am going to have to put a new seal in my pump (too much oil in the engine) I am wondering about tearing mine down.

Did you take the gear off? How does a guy take it off? And what kind of seal goes in there? Ron



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Patrick Martin

08-04-2007 14:43:00




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 Re: Hydraulic system diagnosis on a 100 please guys!!!! :) in reply to Patrick Martin, 08-03-2007 23:25:58  
Man dad-gommit..... ...

I just checked the oil last night and it was normal. I get there today and decide to pull the dipstick and I find it's quite a bit over full.

So know I guess my hydraulic pump is leaking into the crankcase.

Maybe I'll get lucky and fix it and it will solve the whole issue? My luck it won't.

I did go ahead and buy the kit Hugh. It was $129 after tax.



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Hugh MacKay

08-04-2007 17:33:26




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 Re: Hydraulic system diagnosis on a 100 please guys!!!! :) in reply to Patrick Martin, 08-04-2007 14:43:00  
Patrick: Two problems are definitely not better than one. I've never done this, however you will most likely find some shaft wear at point where seal makes contact. Quite a few of the guys on here have used speedy sleeves with good success. right off hand I can think of scotty from CT, hasn't been around lately. CNKS has done a couple and I think has good knowledge on this. I would expect that only works well if the rest of the pump is in good condition. I'm sure there are others, the subject has come up quite often over the years.

Once you get the kit installed and the pump working those hydraulics will work like new. I think what has happened a lot of these tractors, the hydraulic reservoir is very small, and folks tend to think if they are not using hydraulics the fluid level is not curcial. They run them dry of hydraulic oil, and that few short seconds is just about as hard on pump as engine would be without crankcase oil. Folks tend to forget hydraulic oil lubricates as well as transfers energy. That small reservoir was a short comming of all Farmalls with live pumps until IH started using the transmission as a reservoir.

I know the pumps are original on two of my tractors, and none of them have had kits in the touch control. I have religiously treated the hydraulic oil level same as crankcase, radiator, etc. Everyday I'm going to work the tractor, I check levels of all 3. I've talked with other original owners who've done the same with same results. It's a shame but far to many of these little tractors have been in the hands of folks who didn't understand this. I always tell folks who think hydraulic oil level is not crucial if they not using hydraulics, "if that be the case, you should be able to drain your blood while sleeping". That seems to impress upon them just how important this oil level is.

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Patrick Martin

08-05-2007 11:03:30




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 Re: Hydraulic system diagnosis on a 100 please guys!!!! :) in reply to Hugh MacKay, 08-04-2007 17:33:26  
Thanks Hugh your words are very encouraging! At least now I know there is a fix if it comes to worse. I wonder if I can re-metalize the shaft if it is worn and just turn it back to specs on my lathe? If it is bad I will run a bead around the seal area and see. Would you happen to know what the shaft diameter should be Hugh?

The little pump seemed to be in great shape actually when I did go through it. I tell you what..... .I really feel stupid about it now because I did indeed tear into that pump and clean and reassemble it. For some reason I figured it was lubed with crankcase opil and didn't think of there being a seal on that shaft behind that little gear. I took the big O-ring out, cleaned the gaskets off, checked the impeller gears and housing for wear, cleaned them in varsol and reassembled it. I bet..... I just bet....that the seal material reacted to the varsol and it has eroded away. It might just be that simple....I hope.

I'll tear it down today and check it out. I'll post a new topic with pics when I do.

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Hugh MacKay

08-05-2007 13:46:02




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 Re: Hydraulic system diagnosis on a 100 please guys!!!! :) in reply to Patrick Martin, 08-05-2007 11:03:30  
Patrick: Ah ha, now we're getting confessions, so your one of these guys that fix it whether it's broke or not. LOL. Probably if you had never touched that pump it would have pumped hydraulic oil sucessfully for another 20 years. Here's betting you get away with a seal.

I don't think I'd try building up the shaft your way with welding. I've never had one apart, thus I don't know the size. If you find the shaft worn, post a question for CNKS. I've seen discussion on these speedy sleeves, and he's been involved. The sleeves have been very sucessful, and I'm sure if he doesn't know, he can put you in touch with folks who do know.

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Patrick Martin

08-06-2007 23:19:28




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 Re: Hydraulic system diagnosis on a 100 please guys!!!! :) in reply to Hugh MacKay, 08-05-2007 13:46:02  
Yep that's me Hugh! LOL! I've always been one that has figured if I tear part of it down I might as well do the rest. Wouldn't you know slipped up on this! I should have known better that to have not taken the gear off that shaft when i tore it down. I think I might have thought it was just a bushing and there was no seal.....oh well.
I haven't gotten to break into it just yet since I posted this but hopefully tommorrow I can get to it. I think I'll go ahead and replace the O-rings on the lines again too since I have plenty of spare O-rings. It just sucks to have to mess that paint up again. :(

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georgeky

08-04-2007 06:18:22




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 Re: Hydraulic system diagnosis on a 100 please guys!!!! :) in reply to Patrick Martin, 08-03-2007 23:25:58  
Hugh is right on this one. That kit for the lift unit should cure that. It is not that hard to install either. BTW, when the pump does go there is nothing you can do for it except replace it. Seals are available for it and thats it.



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Hugh MacKay

08-04-2007 03:11:37




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 Re: Hydraulic system diagnosis on a 100 please guys!!!! :) in reply to Patrick Martin, 08-03-2007 23:25:58  
Patrick: Time for a rebuild kit for the touch control unit. They are still available from CaseIH for roughly $100. and come complete with excellent installation instructions. Yes, it is bypassing within the tuoch control unit.



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Patrick Martin

08-04-2007 06:05:52




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 Re: Hydraulic system diagnosis on a 100 please guys!!!! :) in reply to Hugh MacKay, 08-04-2007 03:11:37  
Thank you so much Hugh! I was hoping that you would chime in since you know these so well! Thanks! Getting a rebuild kit today! :)



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