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H on kerosine?

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Lanse

08-08-2007 10:40:16

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Just wondering, can you run the old farmall Hs, Ms, etc. on kerosine? How does this effect the engine and its oreformance. Whats better? Gas or Kero?

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dave guest

08-09-2007 21:09:40

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Re: H on kerosine? in reply to Lanse, 08-08-2007 10:40:16

Old man I knew had gas station and garage for 50 years. He told me if I ever wanted to put kerosene in engine, I might as well dump sand into it. Wonder why? I never tried and never found out. I was thinking of using it for engine flush when changing oil way before anybody ever did that>

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minnmeyer

08-09-2007 20:11:25

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Re: H on kerosine? in reply to Lanse, 08-08-2007 10:40:16

my h has the two tanks,and shutters.no pet cock on carb.however there is a little bracket or linkage on the exhaust manifold that has two marks in the manifold to line this up with,for the two different positions.anybody have an idea what this is or what it is for

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Bob Kerr

08-09-2007 08:21:25

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Re: H on kerosine? in reply to Lanse, 08-08-2007 10:40:16

The distillate VS gas controversy rears its ugly head once again! Ok I will put some of it to rest as far as it applys to an F-12. A few years ago at a show in Elnora, IN I did a gas vs kero test on a dyno. I ran my F-12 on kero that weekend. I used the starting tank to do the gas test. Anyway the test gave the EXACT same horsepower on gas and on kero, but on the kero test I did have to lean the carb out so it would have gotten better hours per gallon rating on kerosene. I posted how I did the test on here so you can go to the archives and look it up. The only reason it was used years ago was because of the price. in the 30s gas was about 10-20 cents and distillate was about 2-5 cents a gallon and kero was about 5-8 cents. Distillate was close to the same as kerosene, but it was not as refined. Kero was more refined because people used it for lighting houses and it needed to be clean, so it wouldn't fume up the house as bad. I do know of a 10-20 that was ran on straight crude oil right out of the well in Oklahoma.

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jonnny2006

08-09-2007 01:19:37

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Re: H on kerosine? in reply to Lanse, 08-08-2007 10:40:16

kero low compression head.... distilat medium compression head.... gasoline high compression head. tractors were desinged to run best on fuel they were set up for.

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john d

08-08-2007 16:43:17

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Re: H on kerosine? in reply to Lanse, 08-08-2007 10:40:16

The "kerosene" they burned was called "distillate" by many. My '43 H came on steel and was a distillate burner. Dad converted it to rubber tires as soon as WWII rationing eased, and also changed it to burn gasoline only. The distillate burners required a manifold that got very hot so as to evaporate the fuel. The tractor was started on gasoline from a small tank ahead of the large fuel tank. When the tractor had warmed up enough, it was switched to the kerosene. Radiator shutters were part of the package on these tractors so the operating temperature could be reached more easily. These tractors also had a lower-compression head, and therefore produced a little less power on gasoline than the engines built for gasoline only. Many farmers compensated for that with high-compression pistons at engine overhaul time.

The fuel that was used in those old tractors is no longer produced in exactly the same formula as it was then. Kerosene is close. Because the fuel did not always evaporate completely, the tractors tended to smoke more, and engine oil dilution could be a problem, especially in cold weather. I've been told that the two petcocks on the side of the oil pan allowed the farmer to open the lower one and let oil drain out until it stopped, then close it and fill to where it came out the top one before use. The carburetor on my H also has a petcock that allowed kerosene to be drained from the carburetor so gasoline could then fill it for easy starting when the engine was cold.

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NDS

08-08-2007 17:29:28

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Re: H on kerosine? in reply to john d, 08-08-2007 16:43:17

I beg to differ letter series tractors came as distillate and kerosene models and some of the engine parts are different for example early H heads come as part no. 653052DA distillate and part no. 65288DD kerosene.

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john d

08-08-2007 18:05:48

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Re: H on kerosine? in reply to NDS, 08-08-2007 17:29:28

Once again, I've learned something by hanging out on this board! Thanks!

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Janicholson

08-08-2007 12:09:08

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Re: H on kerosine? in reply to Lanse, 08-08-2007 10:40:16

There were (are on some) seperate tanks for gasoline and second fuel. When shutting it off, the maun fuel was shut off and the carb was drained. The starting procedure included turning on the gasoline from the small tank, and starting it on gas. then when warm (shutters over the radiator to block the air, and heat to the intake manifold with exhaust passing over the outside in a special manifold) then it was switched to the less volatile fuel, and operated. JimN

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Lanse

08-08-2007 11:36:46

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Re: H on kerosine? in reply to Lanse, 08-08-2007 10:40:16

So youre saying put some gas in the tank, start the tractor,let it sit for 2-3mins and dump kerosine in the tank?

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Nebraska Cowman

08-08-2007 10:47:25

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Re: H on kerosine? in reply to Lanse, 08-08-2007 10:40:16

Yup you can run kero. But you need to start on gas and warm up the tractor. Then use a "hot" manifold to preheat your mixture. On low compression engines kero will give more power than gas. But if your compression is to high you will have pre-ignition (pinging) problems. Also kero never burns completely and will dilute the lubricating oil. The old F20s (and others)were made with an extra petcock in the oil pan to draw off the lighter kerosene every morning berfore starting the tractor.

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Mike CA

08-08-2007 10:59:55

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Re: H on kerosine? in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 08-08-2007 10:47:25

What is Distillate, and where can you get that? What does that do for them?

(Wondering if I could run it for notalgic sake.

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randy hall

08-08-2007 11:23:25

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Re: H on kerosine? in reply to Mike CA, 08-08-2007 10:59:55

distillate was 36 octane. so it is about half gas and half fuel oil ]diesel].

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Nat 2

08-08-2007 11:23:02

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Re: H on kerosine? in reply to Mike CA, 08-08-2007 10:59:55

Gasoline is the most powerful fuel for these tractors. LP a close second if I'm not mistaken. Diesel's third, followed by kerosene and distallate pretty much tied for a distant 4th.

The only reason the farmers ran kerosene and distillate was because both were much cheaper than gasoline. Distillate has been discontinued because they found other uses for it; back in the 1930's and 1940's, it was a waste product, either sold for pennies on the dollar as compared to gasoline, or thrown away.

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Andy Martin

08-08-2007 12:32:42

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Re: H on kerosine? in reply to Nat 2, 08-08-2007 11:23:02

Not entirely true.

Tractor fuel can give you more power as well. My dad was running tractors during the late '30's and is adamant that for tractors equipped to run it, tractor fuel gave more power. I sure they were all low compression engines, but he claims they would plow faster and farther on a tank of fuel than a tank of gasoline. I don't know what they were burning in SW Mo. in that era, different areas called it different things, all they ever had was called "tractor fuel" so I don't know if it was distillate, kerosene, or a mixture although he tells me it was not kerosene, it would smoke in a lamp.

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Janicholson

08-08-2007 11:22:25

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Re: H on kerosine? in reply to Mike CA, 08-08-2007 10:59:55

Georgeky is correct, I'll add it is somewhere between kero and #3 fuel oil, It is not made now because of the availability of great catylitic cracking at the refinery to make gasoline and Diesel, and its dirtiness, and poor performance. It was called "tractor fuel" and often 2/3 the price of gasoline.

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georgeky

08-08-2007 11:15:46

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Re: H on kerosine? in reply to Mike CA, 08-08-2007 10:59:55

No longer available.

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A. Bohemian

08-08-2007 12:01:09

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It Also Made the Lights Brighter in reply to georgeky, 08-08-2007 11:15:46

Model T Ford would run on Kerosene, so it wouldn't surprise me if some early Farmalls WITHOUT special manifolds, etc., would too.

One secret was to keep the revs up. Most Ford drivers reduced to Kerosene chose to run in low gear in order to do so.

Now a Model T doesn't go very fast in low gear, even with the rpms up. But Ford drivers were usually forced to use Kerosene in remote areas where gas was unavailable, and were just trying to get to the next place where gasoline WAS obtainable.

In addition, in remote areas in, say, 1920, the roads were often so poor a speed in excess of ten miles an hour was not feasible...

As to how to start a gasoline-engined motor on kerosene, I would expect the usual cold-weather start procedures might make it start on kerosene in warm weather - that is, heating the manifold a little with a torch, putting warm water in the cooling system, and using ether if necessary.

But I don't know whether or not it would work in the cold.

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