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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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.040 bearings for farmall M

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Mike Farmer

12-08-2007 11:11:43




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Hi gentlemen of the red. As you know I have been searching for a set of .040 crankshaft bearings for a long long time with lots of help and good wishes but no luck. So I am now in a no lose situation. Basically I have a reground .040 crank ( we had to go there because of crank damage)and no bearings. So this is what I intend to do. I'm going to buy a set of .030 and back shim them between the castings and the bearings with .005 steel shim. My local engineer fell about laughing when I told him this and said 'not possible'. However I'm not an engineer so I don't know that. I'm just a man ? with a box of spanners(wrenches) and a screwed up M crankshaft. At worst I lose the price of a set of bearings against a running engine if it succeeds. So what do you all reckon, I'll certainly listen to what you have to say, but I'm pretty much set on doing it. So here goes nothing. By the way it's not likely to happen in a hurry. Incidently CA if you put your steel wheels in the garden and fill em with flowers you could just survive it or chocolate Take care MTF

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Owen Aaland

12-10-2007 13:40:29




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-08-2007 11:11:43  
Tapered shim stock use to be available just for shimming behind bearing shells. To take up .002, the shim stock would be .002 in the center and .001 on each end. You only shimmed one bearing shell, not both. You put the shim under the main cap shell so that the block side with the oil hole was still original.

If done carefully there should be no reason that shimming .030 bearings to fit a .040 shaft will not give good service. The biggest problems will be finding shim stock in .005 size and in taking off .005 on each end of each bearing shell and keeping the ends square.

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Mike Farmer

12-10-2007 12:39:01




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-08-2007 11:11:43  
Hi my last answer has appeared 3 times at a new site sorry its an age thing MTF



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teddy52food

12-10-2007 06:15:47




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-08-2007 11:11:43  
The .040 mains are no longer available. Do you have the old inserts? Check and see if you can get them babbited and cut to .040.



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Gary in Mozarks

12-09-2007 16:02:39




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-08-2007 11:11:43  
Gearnut, I agree with you, I recall my dad doing exactly that on a 49 dodge, and it ran till we junked it. It will work, but having said that, they didn;t have the spray weld technology back then that they have now. They were not high rev, high compresson engines. (Just like a 49 dodge) and you can get away with alot. I guess it would depend on what he plans on doing with it. I know alot of these old iron tractors don;t do much beyond pulling a haywaon in a parade. I do like someone who thinks outside the box. Gary

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teddy52food

12-09-2007 07:46:00




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-08-2007 11:11:43  
Don't give up just yet. I checked my old Federal Mogel shop manuel and they list bearings in .040. #576M I will check the local shop tomorrow and see if they can get them.



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Steven f/AZ

12-08-2007 15:35:23




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-08-2007 11:11:43  
For what it's worth, my F12 has been running since 1991 with shimmed up bearings on the rods and mains. Keep in mind that engine has never pulled any more of a load than a light trailer though...

Just how bad is shipping to wherever you are? Let us know the info and we can check up on shipping options for a better crankshaft.



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Duner Wi

12-08-2007 18:27:39




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-08-2007 11:11:43  
I have shimmed cranks many times and I can get it to work but I won't say you can do it and get it to work. I have never shimmed .010 tho, I will tell you to go slow one at a time and check. Don't for get to file a wee bit off the end for crush or not too much crush. I wouldn't file the caps as my first choice.



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Janicholson

12-08-2007 17:50:26




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-08-2007 11:11:43  
I agree with Bus Driver and D Slater,
Shimming for fit was common practice even as late as the 70s, but only in the area of .0005 to .002 (very max) The solution is to have the crank welded as indicated in their post. A welded crank, with standard bearings will make it trustworthy in your mind. Shimmed up bearings will never be trusted with the full faith that the rebuild needs to have. Plasma Spray technology is incredible. JimN

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Bus Driver

12-09-2007 10:34:49




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Janicholson, 12-08-2007 17:50:26  
Hard Chrome is not welding, it is a form of plating. It does not change the metallurgy nor the original heat treat of the crankshaft. They plate, then grind and polish. Slicker, harder finish than original.



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Bus Driver

12-08-2007 14:07:30




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-08-2007 11:11:43  
If salvaging that particular crankshaft is absolutely necessary, find a place that does "industrial hard chrome" buildup on crankshafts. An entirely different process from decorative chrome found on auto trim.



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Bus Driver

12-08-2007 14:12:03




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Bus Driver, 12-08-2007 14:07:30  
To add one comment, a 0.010 buildup would be 0.005 on each side of the crank journal.



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D Slater

12-08-2007 13:49:52




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-08-2007 11:11:43  
Mike,off and on for the last 2 weeks I tried to find some bearings from places that found hard to get parts for me before. Best I can determain is that if anyone made them it was a aftermarket company. No luck so far. Does anyplace weld up crank journals over there without costing more than shipping on another crank. If just the main bearings need built up. With the shims unless modifications are made you wouldn't keep the bearings from spining and if you devised a way to hold them you may have a problem with heat disapatation

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D Slater

12-08-2007 14:21:37




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to D Slater, 12-08-2007 13:49:52  
Forgot to add that when in the previous post I mentioned that IH didn't recomend turning past .030 because it could get below the treated surface of crank. In searching for bearings I found a listing for bigger undersized rod bearings for some power unit engines with the large journal crank. So now I'm curious and trying to find out what if anything is different between some PU and tractor cranks. Of coarse thats not any help to you.

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the Unforgiven

12-08-2007 12:36:15




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-08-2007 11:11:43  
No, it will not work. You are thinkig of picking up the extra .010 on the outside of the bearing shell, and you need to think in terms of the inside. The 30 under bearing is thinner, to fit around a certain size shaft. So, when you shim the back of the insert and wrap it around a smaller shaft it will act like it is too long and also be squeezed out of round near it's ends. Because the outer diameter of the insert HAS TO BE the same no matter what the inner sizing is.Forget it, send your crank to China, and get a different one.

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georgeky

12-08-2007 13:19:32




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to the Unforgiven, 12-08-2007 12:36:15  
You are exactly right! Impossible to shim the backside, and make a .030 bearing fit a .040 crank.



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Dave S.

12-08-2007 12:29:54




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-08-2007 11:11:43  
I don't think I would take a chance on trying to shim the bearings. It could cost you a lot more than getting a different crank (such as broken rod a hole in the block etc)



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georgeky

12-08-2007 11:44:46




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-08-2007 11:11:43  
I don't know if it will work or not, but I doubt it. Like L.C. Gray suggest, I would find me a good crank, and not be worried with this anymore. .040 bearings are not available for that crank anywhere that I know of. Might have a set custom made, but a crank will be cheaper, and still have life down the road for the next time.

Good Luck.



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Allan In NE

12-08-2007 11:43:26




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-08-2007 11:11:43  
Boy, I dunno.

Think .040" is way too thin on a crank. Won't stand up and will snap on ya.

Get another crank.

Allan



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Andy Motteberg

12-08-2007 11:37:33




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-08-2007 11:11:43  
Where have you looked for bearings? Have you tried NAPA or CaseIH?



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L.C.Gray

12-08-2007 11:25:51




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-08-2007 11:11:43  
I'm not saying its impossible by any means but it probably wouldn't survive the long haul

As much trouble as it is to have the crank out, I believe I'd look for another crank that would grind .030 and go with it.

If you do try the shim deal, be sure to account for oil passage on the block side and take a little off the ends of the bearing shells so they don't bottom out on one another. Also check your fit with some plastigage. Sometimes 1 and 1 don't always add up to 2 under load.

I still say find another crank, you're already in too deep to be "southern engineering" something so critical.

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Gearnut

12-08-2007 15:47:18




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 Re: .040 bearings for farmall M in reply to L.C.Gray, 12-08-2007 11:25:51  
I've built engines for 30 yrs and no one is wrong in what they are saying. However, I can tell you I've disassembled older engines and found bearings that were shimmed from behind and the bearings survived just fine. I've filed rod and main caps to get the fit I want "by feel", (without using plastic gage). 4100 Cadillac engines were notorious for noisy mains. I hand filed most every main to get it tight. Here's a interesting one, I disassembled a 350 chevy out of a Grumman van that had a constant rattle at 2500 rpms- sounded like a rod. One of the big ends of the rods were .007 over from the factory. The bearing looked perfect (at 75,000 miles!), even tho it probably had little if any crush holding it in place. If you were building a 10,000 rpm engine- I'd say do it to exacting specs. In the case of this low rpm, big bearing engine, you can get away with a lot. I'm not telling you to do it, but if it was me and I didn't want to chrome up the crank, I'd file .010 off each side of a rod cap and see how it feels once torqued up. Side clearance will not be correct, but who cares. What matters is it doesn't have too much end clearance (up and down). You will crush your bearings down and it may even squeeze in a bit at the parting lines. If you can work with the rod only(no piston) it will help. Hope this helps, and now I will go put my helmut on as I'm sure I'll have 20 people all saying I'm nuts. Go ahead..lol. Oh, and it will effect oil pressure slightly as the hole passes the parting line the oil won't have as much to push against with the added .010 side clearance, but once again, it may not really matter so long as you have 30 psi hot at high idle.

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