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What Is The Reason?

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Allan In NE

02-18-2008 02:57:51

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Okay,

Putting a live pump on the M and want to use the old lift pump reservoir as the hydraulic tank.

Conventional wisdom says to drill/tap/plumb a 3/4" fitting into the right front lower corner of the lift boss.

How come I can't just plumb into the existing oil drain plug on the back side of the lift pivot?

What would be the difference?

Thanks,

Allan

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tn terry t

02-18-2008 22:05:47

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to DLJ in NC, 02-18-2008 02:57:51

-Im justa tad tight on the right side but this is what work for me

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SD FARMALL

02-18-2008 11:32:44

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 02:57:51

What are ya going to do with the live pump? I use mine only to run my Power Steering, just curious as to what the project is?

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Allan In NE

02-18-2008 15:06:29

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to SD FARMALL, 02-18-2008 11:32:44

Just bringin' the old gal up to speed.

They just aren't worth much in today's world without hydraulics, 3-point hitch and steering.

Wish there was a way to liven up that PTO, but I guess two out of three ain't bad. :>)

Allan

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SD FARMALL

02-18-2008 20:15:07

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 15:06:29

Man is that the truth, just finished the M I asked everyone about around a month ago, I ended up just putting a pressure relief valve off of the live M&W pump and I ran a cross three point off my belly pump. For a reservior I made one to fit where the little gas tank in front of the main went. I suuuuure like the powersteering when you got a big round on the front.

Talk to ya later

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D Slater

02-18-2008 10:21:26

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 02:57:51

Some do supply the pump from the drain, but pump suction pipe should be larger than through a 1/2 inch pipe and one or 2 90 degree bends that some use in drain. Something like trying to suck a milkshake through a small diameter straw compared to a bigger one for a non technical answer.

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Lee in Iowa

02-18-2008 08:43:31

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 02:57:51

I've been told that some people have put hytran in the rear end and used that for a reservoir, but others say you get too much water in there. I would think you would want ot try to clean it out real good. Lee

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Allan In NE

02-18-2008 08:48:31

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Lee in Iowa, 02-18-2008 08:43:31

That's what I was wondering, but I've also heard people say that it causes leaks?

Allan

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NBAllen

02-18-2008 10:45:01

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 08:48:31

Check the viscosity ratings at the operating temperature.

One of the issues with hytran or any other "lighter" hydraulic oil is that the thinner oil will find a smaller hole.

Also, (depending on the particular oil formulation) detergents or other additives will work on the existing junk around the seals (oily dirt, etc.) and potentially re-expose old leaks.

Nathaniel

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Damp;Dservice

02-18-2008 08:34:43

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 02-18-2008 02:57:51

did you get that power steering working yet? did you find a shaft stretcher or put in a u-joint? gettin that rig ready for hayin time i bet!

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Allan In NE

02-18-2008 08:45:16

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Damp;Dservice, 02-18-2008 08:34:43

Oh,

I got that shaft problem handled, but had to order a new pump and it won't be here until tomorrow.

I guess the old pump that I had needs to go to the great salvage yard in the sky. :>)

Allan

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Randy in NE

02-18-2008 09:27:15

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 08:45:16

What about the warranty? Or did you sign the warranty waiver to get such a good deal on the pump?

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Allan In NE

02-18-2008 09:28:35

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Randy in NE, 02-18-2008 09:27:15

4 years ago out of a salvage yard?

I don't have time to fight that fight. :>)

Allan

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Allan In NE

02-18-2008 08:51:18

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 08:45:16

Darned thing wouldn't pump a lick. :>(

Allan

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Sagebrusher

02-18-2008 08:18:28

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 02:57:51

Alan, for what it may be worth, our '50 M has an M&W dist pump that is plumbed in to a two spool valve mounted on the back of the operators deck. One of these spools is used for the three pt and and the other is primarily used to run a 3x8 remote cylinder.
The 1/2" return line from this valve is plumbed to a T at the drain on the lift all pump with the other side of the tee feeding a one inch suction line back to the distributor pump.
The lift all pump is still installed and hooked up for normal use too. The biggest theoretical limitation would seem to be the nominal six quart capacity (I usually overfill it by a quart or so) but it has been given completely satisfactory service since my friend installed the system in the mid to late 1950s and is still doing so. Can't attest to a possible heat issue but the inside of the belly pump was absolutely clean and the original oil looked pristine when I changed it just after we bought the tractor.

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Allan In NE

02-18-2008 08:24:34

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Sagebrusher, 02-18-2008 08:18:28

My neighbor has an old M rigged up that way. Feed and dump right on the same darned T.

I "think" he just uses it for power steering tho.

Allan

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02-18-2008 07:22:39

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 02:57:51

morning -- try doing what i did. built a 7 1/2 gal tank and mounted it at my controls. it is not in the way. have a filter in the return line and a filter in the tank at the suction port. i bougth the filters/tank cap at northern suppy. pictures will be last on the page.

hyd system

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Allan In NE

02-18-2008 08:11:29

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to wh, 02-18-2008 07:22:39

Hi Guy,

That's a nice neat installation, but it would be right smack in the way of things out here in the boon-docks.

Can't have anything across that axle.

Thanks tho,

Allan

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MN Rick

02-18-2008 07:07:52

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 02:57:51

Failed to mention that most of the cleaner installations I've seen had an inline spin on filter on the suction side as well.

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MN Rick

02-18-2008 07:05:27

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 02:57:51

I've seen a lot of them plumbed up that way over the years. I agree with the others that I would want more oil capacity than that and it does occur to me that with the tank being buried inside the tractor there are now 2 things working against cooling the oil. I've also seen a few that use a combination of the gutted belly pump along with a small (3-5 gal.)tank mounted opposite the battery box. That doubles the capacity and and gets a tank out where it can cool better.

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Steven f/AZ

02-18-2008 07:03:35

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 02:57:51

When I put together the live hydrualics on my H, I was told that a suction on the bottom would run all the dirt and sludge through the pump. Even if you put a suction strainer or filter on it, that just means it will plug up sooner.

I took the pump mechanism out and put a plate over the end. I"m not sure how much it holds, but had to add an oil cooler due to my 15 GPM pump and around two or 2 1/2 gallon capacity.

I had them just drill and tap a hole in the side of the casting instead of the front like this diagram shows:
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I plumbed the return line into the hole where the control rod used to go in (had the machine shop tap it for 3/4" pipe thread). Top arrow shows return, bottom arrow shows suction.
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Here"s my tank:
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Someday I plan to add more hydrualic capacity by mounting a reservoir on the axle under my control valves...

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Armand Tatro

02-18-2008 06:00:36

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 02:57:51

Alan: Have you considered making a new tank to replace the belly pump? Back in the 60"s we had a neighbor do that to his Farmall H so he could dump a 14ft. barge wagon. The squared-off bottom of his new tank was maby an inch or two lower than the old belly pump and could have 4 or 5 gal. of oil. It worked real good and had plenty of cap. Should help with cooling also. Armand

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Randy se-mn

02-18-2008 04:52:49

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 02:57:51

That is how I did mine...I put a row of magnets across the bottom of the pump. You"ll need a resevoir higher than the live pump itself to keep prime (logic states anyway)...I did. The live pump had better be in triple A-1 shape however...That oil gets REALLY HOT, and my pump slows down considerably...but my pump is probably getting weak.

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IaGary

02-18-2008 04:34:00

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 02:57:51

Sucking right off of the bottom may cause problems if you have dirt in your system.

But if all is clean and you keep it clean, it could work couldn't it?

Gary

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Allan In NE

02-18-2008 04:42:55

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to IaGary, 02-18-2008 04:34:00

Dunno,

Think the biggest drawback is the small 1 1/2 gallon capacity. Tryin' to figure out a way to get around that problem. :>(

Allan

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Ronald

02-18-2008 06:35:11

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 04:42:55

I took the pump out of my H and stripped everything out of the inside of the tank(Shaft gears and case). But you'll have to plug the hole in the case where the shaft comes through. It gives a little extra room in there. I tapped the drain plug out to 3/4 and used it for the supply line to the pump.

Ronald

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Duner Wi

02-18-2008 06:31:37

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 04:42:55

Take the pump out and bolt down a steel plate over the opening. This will increase your reserve somewhat. I think I put a 3/4 " pipe in the plate to feed the pump.

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Owen Aaland

02-18-2008 05:28:21

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 04:42:55

If you remove the old pump and use an expansion (frost) plug instead of the shaft seal you increase the capacity to about 2 gallons

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RustyFarmall

02-18-2008 03:33:25

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2008 02:57:51

I've often wondered that myself. Why go to the work of drilling and tapping a new hole when you've already got one? With the proper fittings, you could still do a neat job and have everything tucked up out of the way.

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Janicholson

02-18-2008 05:51:12

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Re: What Is The Reason? in reply to RustyFarmall, 02-18-2008 03:33:25

Another option is to enlarge the existing plug hole so that the T fitting could have an extension brazed on it to pick oil up just off the floor (like in a fuel tank) Another small issue is keeping the hoses and fittings out of harms way. On the live pump issue, did the tractor already have the upgraded front cover timing gears? JimN

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