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Raped at the gas pump

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Gary in TX

08-24-2003 14:47:16

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This message is primarily meant for readers in the USA. Is anyone else feeling like they are being raped at the gas pumps these days???? Its almost as bad as at the parts counters. I know there is something that can be done, question is what?????

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JD70Jim

08-25-2003 16:10:47

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

You want to get control over outrageous fuel prices?

Demand accelerated developement and distribution of fuel cell technology.

Buy that technology when it becomes available.

Use ethanol to fuel it.

In other words, we need a competitive fuel source and power system for vehicles, one that does not use a fuel sold and distributed by the Petroleum companies.

Just as soon as there is an alternative, you can bet the farm that fuel prices will become VERY reasonable (for however long it takes to put whatever new system cimes along, out of business!)

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THOUGHT IT WAS A TRACTOR

08-26-2003 09:51:33

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to JD70Jim, 08-25-2003 16:10:47

SORRY I MUST HAVE HIT THE WRONG FORUM.
What a waste

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08-25-2003 05:30:18

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

Like the others said the news is blaming the price hike on the few hours the eastern refineries were shut down, which is a bunch of crap. Also next week is labor day weekend which they usually gouge the prices on as well. The oil companies are out of control and unless everyone bands together and quits buying their products they wont get any better.

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Alvin NE WI

08-25-2003 17:27:24

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to LH, 08-25-2003 05:30:18

I agree with you...It is up to the consumer.I guess most people don't really give a rats #ss at the price just #itch when they fill up and than hit the pedal to the floor board. IF everybody would slow down to the speed limit or a little less the price would drop,quick

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Steve - IN

08-25-2003 14:58:48

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to LH, 08-25-2003 05:30:18

If you grow corn, and buy drought resistant hybrid seeds this winter, and there's a drought next summer -- then you'll get great yields next Fall while everybody else's crops are sucking wind. In that case by your example I'd expect you to sell next Fall's crop at this years prices. To do otherwise would be unfair, just like those oil companies, right?

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Trevor

08-25-2003 09:48:53

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to LH, 08-25-2003 05:30:18

Wouldn't it be great to be involved in an industry were if you have 4 hrs of lost production you can increase your prices by greater than 10%!!!!

GM, Ford, Chrysler and Honda were all without power for hours and then were on reduced production for a week here in Ontario. Will our cars cost 10% more to recoupe lost production??? NO

How about the farmers who ended up dumping milk because it sat for to long with out refridgeration. Will the price of milk go up at Mac's??? NO

Why do the gas companies think that they can??? Because we will pay it. The govenments should get more control over this, however they are in the pockets of the gas companies and a dollar for the gas company is $0.25 for the government.

Don't know what the answer is but I do think that we need to fix it.

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dhermesc

08-25-2003 11:48:32

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Re: Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Trevor, 08-25-2003 09:48:53

There is no such thing as long term storage for fuel. As posted below the fuel you put in your tank was this morning was probably refined a week ago, and spent most of that time on the road or at the gas station's storage tank. Anything that disrupts that supply translates into instant shortage and instant fuel price hike. Kind of like the Time Square area of New York durin the power outage. Nobody keeps a back stop inventory of anything. With the standed population eating everything in site, in a single day the store shelves and restaurants where empty.

As for fuel mileage, my 1979 Ford F250 with a 351M got 17 MPG back then. My dad's old 1976 LTD with a 400 4blr got around 20 and my wife's 1990 Cavalier got almost 40MPG! Can't buy a comparable vehicle today and do any better. I see these soccer moms filling up the Suburbans for $60-$80 and make me very glad our primary vehicles are both Taurus's getting around 29 MPG.

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Steve - IN

08-24-2003 22:33:13

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

If you're farming, you watch the Chicago Mercantile Exchange or the CBOT to get an idea what grain prices are doing, and what fears are moving the markets. For gas, watch the New York Mercantile exchange quotes for unleaded gas.

Last week the idea that a number of refinery operations shut down with the power outage made the futures price of gas run up the limits. Why's that? The price of crude hadn't run up. It's because we're hand to mouth with gas. The stuff you put in your tank was probably only refined 10 to 20 days ago, maybe less. And why's that? We haven't built a new refinery in the USA in the last 30 years. Not because the oil companies aren't willing -- but because the enviro wackos and the NIMBY's won't let it happen. Next time you curse the situation, think about how nice it would be to have some extra refining capacity to store extra gas and average in the prices and avoid the price shock --- then blame some tree hugger for creating the problem.

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Glenn-WV

08-25-2003 08:51:03

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Steve - IN, 08-24-2003 22:33:13

Great post, Steve!! I agree 150%!!!

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Les...fortunate

08-25-2003 04:32:39

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Steve - IN, 08-24-2003 22:33:13

Steve, you have got it exactly right. The tree huggers, NIMBYs and other EWs are way out of control in this country. Tree hugging wackos have learned well how to use the courts to thwart acceptable forestry practices here in NH and around the country. They are, IMHO, directly responsible for the devastating fires we have out west these days and for the ruination of a whole industry and the lives that go with it. It is their policy here in NH to block every single timber sale the Forest Service proposes. All of this costs money and drives up the price of lumber products. And it means that the forest is not managed as it should be. There may come a day when we have forest fires out of control here in the east for that very reason.
Back in the late '60s and '70s, they caused the price of the Seabrook nuclear plant to increase by a factor of at least 10. Whackos are getting their meathooks into every possible area of your life and making things miserable for everybody.

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Dave Wis

08-25-2003 17:13:26

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Re: Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Les...fortunate, 08-25-2003 04:32:39

I agree with most of that, however, when the price of crude goes down we are told it takes 6-8 weeks for that to go through the system and get to the pump. When it goes up we see it at the pump in 6-8 hours, every time. How does that work?

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JS in IL

08-24-2003 22:10:42

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

what I find intersting is that the price of gas supposedly increases due to the price of crude oil, funny thing though is that a quart of oil seems immune to the price changes. I pay the same for an oil change as I did three years ago. The big crime is diesel prices. Diesel is a by-product from the manufacture of gasoline. They used to have to pay to get rid of it.

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Steve - IN

08-25-2003 15:06:59

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to JS in IL, 08-24-2003 22:10:42

JS,
Problem is that you get about the same per centage of gas, Diesel, or motor oil from each and every barrel of crude -- no matter what the market demands, the ratio of supply stays the same. Market doesn't need as much motor oil as it does gas or Diesel. So until some genius figures out how to change the form or numbers of the various molecules in that crude, you're always gonna get more supply of some stuff and less of other stuff than the market demands.

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buickanddeere

08-24-2003 21:29:04

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

The price of fuel vs. wages in 1970 vs. 2003 makes a gallon of gasoline a bargain. There are only so many BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline. More than half of the energy just goes out the tailpipe of through the radiator as lost heat. That leaves a lighter more aerodynamic vehicle and lower speeds the only place to improve mileage. All the easy fixes for mileage such as fuel injection, lock-up torque converter, overdrive and a rounded front end have ben used. Any improvements now cost alot for a little gain. For example a 1975 GMC 4x4 pickup with an automatic and an approx 175 HP 400 cu" engine got maybe 5 miles per gallon. Now our 2003 1500HD 4x4 with a 366 cu" 300 HP engine averages 15mpg .

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Aces

08-25-2003 05:09:49

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to buickanddeere, 08-24-2003 21:29:04

Buickanddeere I will never believe what is said about milage we have been lied to for to long. You talk about the 60's and 7o's pickups getting 5 miles that is true if it was one of the big 3 put I drove the IH pickups then and ALWAYS got 12 13 with there 392 V8 and it would run the put of any of the big 3 and the 400 IH put in the travelal would get 20 with loaded. By brother had an Olds coustom cruser wagen with a 455 and it would get 19 20 loaded. I know of a 1975 Pontiac with 400 that would burn rubber as long as you keeped the foot peddle to the floor till it got to top speed and it always got 18 19 miles so a plastic car should get better miles per gal but that 455 could have gotten better if some would have tried, but no one tried. I can get 31 32 with my Pontiac now but it is now the car my 1960 pontiac was. Just don't fly with me I know of a 1979 DT414 in a 1086 that would not burn 8 gallon and hour under full load never a long enough day to burn 80 gallons under less load I don't see how it could run on what it burned, so as I said it just don,t fly with me.

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buickanddeere

08-25-2003 21:37:46

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Re: Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Aces, 08-25-2003 05:09:49

Most of these people getting great milage are caculating off the gas gauge instead of dividing miles by gallons. Other such as my uncle only drive at 30mph and coat the last 1/4 mile to stop signs. His super dupper Toyoto pickup which got 30+ mpg suddenly dropped into the mid teens on a trip at 70mph when I ran the numbers.

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Aces

08-24-2003 19:53:36

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

Don't make any difference how you look at it it is still rape. Will never believe we can't get better milage than we get. They just don't want us to.

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08-24-2003 19:33:40

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

I heard it was related to the blackout last week, it shut down some refineries which means less supply. Also, the Labor day weekend is coming so it's time to gouge the travelers. If I could just get all my cows to fart on command, I'd have an endless supply of methane...at least that's what the tree-huggers want us to believe! Wish there was better access to ethanol/methanol around here.

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Slowpoke

08-24-2003 23:16:30

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to MB, 08-24-2003 19:33:40

Better not let those cows produce any methane-
The E/Ws are already looking at the "excess methane" from large Ca. dairy herds.

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Jay

08-24-2003 18:33:13

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

A link for your consideration. Also remember that the feds make 18.4 cents per gallon, and most states are making about 20. As a petro retailer myself, I would be VERY pleased to make 18 or 20 cents per gallon. Trust me, there is no one getting fat in this business.

Also, while supply and demand certainly drives the market, overreactions and massive price spikes are mostly caused at Wall Street. The oil companies pass along to expense.

Historical Gas Prices

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Rod F.

08-24-2003 20:13:00

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Jay, 08-24-2003 18:33:13

True that most retailers make squat in this business, but big oil does alright.Interesting how crude has been sitting around $30 USD for the last few months, being quite stable, and the retail price of regular has ranged from $.70 to $.859 CAD per liter in the same time span. I wouldn't think they would gouge us.....not big oil. With a 10 cent hike in the past 10 days, a person is left with very little sympathy for the oil company. Especially when this happens every year around this time. Just my 2 cents.

Rod

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Slowpoke

08-24-2003 23:20:41

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Re: Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Rod F., 08-24-2003 20:13:00

It also happens in May every year.

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Jay

08-24-2003 18:35:45

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Jay, 08-24-2003 18:33:13

An addition:

Here is a sheet about the changes in gasoline prices compared to other items.

Gas vs. Bread

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Dick

08-24-2003 17:50:04

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

Where's Dick Nixon when you need him. the best thing he ever did in my opion was put a freeze on gas prices.

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Les...fortunate

08-25-2003 04:20:09

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Dick, 08-24-2003 17:50:04

You got it backwards. The stupidest thing he ever did was freeze wages and prices. Short term gain got us a lot of long term pain.

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Dick in Ore..

08-24-2003 21:06:04

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Dick, 08-24-2003 17:50:04

Yeah,, could you ever imagine George Bush doing that? Not a chance..

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08-24-2003 17:48:22

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

I dont like paying a rediculous price for any necessity. But if you think of it like this its not too bad. Remember when a canned drink cost 10 cents, a candy bar was 5 cents a loaf of bread was 25 cents, a gallon of milk was 75 cents and a gallon of gas was 32 cents. If gas went up like these items have, what would the price per gallon be?

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Slowpoke

08-25-2003 00:45:48

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to GG, 08-24-2003 17:48:22

One can still buy soda for 25 cents, and bread for 99 cents: therefore gas would be $1.279.

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49 Cubber!

08-24-2003 16:57:06

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

Geez.I pay 1.45 for deisel.DOnt know if thats good or bad,but Im glad I dont have to pay those kind of prices YET!

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Mary

08-24-2003 16:53:13

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

The best thing to do is every time we get in this big truck ask yourself Is this trip necessary. Cuts our gas bill.

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Ludwig

08-24-2003 17:51:12

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Mary, 08-24-2003 16:53:13

Or "Could I walk?" or "Should I take the car instead?" "or bicycle?"
I'll admit I'm bad about it sometimes, but lately I'm sure to take the diesel car to work instead of my pickup, 30mpg vs 20mpg $1.62 diesel vs $1.70 gas. Saves about $12 a week at these prices.

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big fred

08-24-2003 16:41:42

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

You might consider filling up in a better part of town. It might also help to stop dressing so provocatively. ;o)

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buickanddeere

08-24-2003 16:00:55

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

Converts to $2.17US per US gallon for tractor gas at the road pumps here. Another 6 cents per liter for mid grade so the knock sensor doesn't hear detonation and retard the spark and reduce mileage.

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Loren

08-24-2003 15:34:51

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

Yeah, I guess you could call finding $1.919 for the cheapest regular in town raped. Went up about $0.24 in the last two weeks.

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didn,t vote and get count

08-24-2003 16:18:41

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Loren, 08-24-2003 15:34:51

we have to have our prez get those campain costs paid back and just think this is just the start. propane disel natural gas,antifreeze etc orry no kisses

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Lary

08-24-2003 15:30:36

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

Gary; Subtract all the tax on a gallon of gas,then compare it to what people pay for a pint of drinking water, just because it is in a bottle.Water falls out of the sky, refiners have to drill a mile or more to get crude, then have to cook it. just my two cents, Lary

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Howard Yoshida

08-24-2003 15:00:37

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Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Gary in TX, 08-24-2003 14:47:16

Aloha, I would think that since you live in Texas where it is close to the oil, it would be cheaper.
You are lucky you don't live here in Hawaii.

Mahalo,
Howard

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Roy in UK

08-24-2003 15:03:12

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Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Howard Yoshida, 08-24-2003 15:00:37

Or Britain!

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Davidj

08-24-2003 15:10:24

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Re: Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Roy in UK, 08-24-2003 15:03:12

Or Eastern Ontario $0.77/liter

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Jeff in TX

08-24-2003 15:34:04

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Davidj, 08-24-2003 15:10:24

How many liters does it take to make a gallon? Cheapest I have seen it around here is $1.59 a gallon.

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Kurt

08-25-2003 09:01:21

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Jeff in TX, 08-24-2003 15:34:04

It is now 1.90 or so per gallon in Mi.

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Don Wadge

08-24-2003 19:14:26

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Jeff in TX, 08-24-2003 15:34:04

Ther are 4.56 litres to a Canadian gallon which equals 3.65 litres to a US gallon.

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Larry Hardesty

08-24-2003 15:52:10

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Jeff in TX, 08-24-2003 15:34:04

I don't want to pay high costs for gas either, but our gas is a bargain compared to Europe. I spent some time in Sweden, Denmark, Germany, France, etc. this summer. Near as I could calculate, they are paying $4-$5+ per gallon. Of course, it is so many Euro per liter but once calculated out, pretty expensive. Did not see any large pickups (Dodges, Fords, or Chevy's there; a few small Toyotas etc., pickups). Went to a tractor show in the Netherlands, and a lot of people had driven their tractors there. Saw lots of people walking or riding bicycles. As I said, I don't want to give any more money to the oil companies than I have to, but it could be lots worse.

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Steve - IN

08-25-2003 14:39:38

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Larry Hardesty, 08-24-2003 15:52:10

Larry,
Here's a surprise. The oil companies don't pocket that difference between gas prices here versus Europe. You can explain their high prices in one word: TAXES. Get yourself an annual report from BP or Shell and read up on it. They actually make slightly less money selling gas in Europe.

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RonMC

08-24-2003 16:23:58

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to Larry Hardesty, 08-24-2003 15:52:10

Here in B.C. it's sitting about 89.9/litre.A litre is just very slightly larger than a US gallon. Translates to about $2.62/US gallon ! I think we're also getting the shaft !

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toolman

08-25-2003 00:05:28

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to RonMC, 08-24-2003 16:23:58

ron where the heck are you in b.c. im in the southeast corner and im paying 69.9.

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Ludwig - Huh?

08-24-2003 17:46:45

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Raped at the gas pump in reply to RonMC, 08-24-2003 16:23:58

Unless 'litres' are different than "liters" a liter is just a bit larger than a quart and there are 4 quarts in a gallon. So about 4 liters to the gallon. So $3.56C for a gallon, last I checked it was $1.11US to $1C so thats about $3.20?
Makes my $1.65 seem pretty danged good.

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Don Wadge

08-24-2003 19:22:38

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Raped at the gas p in reply to Ludwig - Huh?, 08-24-2003 17:46:45

Litres and liters- the same thing. There are 4.56 liters to a Canadian gallon and 3.65 liters to a US gallon. Canadian dollar is running about 1.38 - 1.40 = $1.00US. So at 74.9 cents C$/liter: 1 US gallon here in Winnipeg would cost $1.95 in US funds.

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steveormary

08-24-2003 20:29:28

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Raped at the g in reply to Don Wadge, 08-24-2003 19:22:38

Gasoline prices here in the south of NM along the Rio Grande start at $1.64 and up. Not too bad I guess.

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Slowpoke

08-25-2003 00:37:24

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Raped at t in reply to steveormary, 08-24-2003 20:29:28

San Francisco: $2.299/reg. Other 'Bay Area' as low as $2.119. Arco was always lower by 10-15�, but now is the same as the rest, Shell, BP. Chevron, etc.
Two weeks ago, I paid $1.559.
API says gas costs the same as bread, but I don't buy 10-15 loaves of bread two or three times a week. If I did, I'd go straight to the bakery. And speaking of going to the source, I was in LA area a couple of years ago, and the highest price I saw was at a Gulf station located about 1000 feet outside the refinery. Imagine going to the supermarket and finding only 25% of the normal amount of bread on the shelves.
The manager approaches and says "I've got to raise the price because stocks are low".
An "expert" today said part of the rise in gas prices was due to 'political insability in Iraq and stocks are lowest in 9 monthe.
Six months ago, we supposedly weren't buying any oil from Iraq. What BS! Its panic bidding at the Mercantile auction in NY.
Just my 10 cents.

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