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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Can Someone Tell Me Why

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Allan

10-06-2003 03:21:06




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Hi All,

I've been wondering this for forty years and have been too shy to ask in fear of showing my ignorance.

But, can someone explain to me why spinner plows were/are not all that popular by the majority of farmers?

I have never been able to understand this. I've never understood why someone would want to plow in lands, or in circles instead of plowing both directions. I don't get it.

Thanks for your insight,

Allan

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Roger

10-06-2003 18:06:04




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 Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Allan, 10-06-2003 03:21:06  
I have looked through all the postings and I don't
think your question has been anwsered. Two Way or
Spinner plows were used for Flood Irrigation.
Plowing the furrows all the same way eliminated
dead furrows where water could stand. This helped
to keep the field flat and not cause "pooling" the
irrigation water. There used to be a lot of two
way or spinner plows in western Kansas. Two things
happened - pivot irrigation systems became popular
(level ground was not as important). And moisture
saving implements like "Blade" or "Sweep" plows
were used. I am sure when they stopped using two
way plows them they moved out to other areas
because they were cheap.

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Dana

10-06-2003 09:31:59




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 Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Allan, 10-06-2003 03:21:06  
I have trouble posting photos. Does it look like this?http://www.farmphoto.com/photography/attachment/size_original/59CD4D45-2EC2-42C8-938F-2E08CA80EACF.jpg



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Allan

10-06-2003 17:21:49




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 Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Dana, 10-06-2003 09:31:59  
Hi Dana,

Did you doctor the picture or someone else? You had me for a minute there. :>)

Nice job though, almost looks real.

Allan



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LINK here -paul

10-06-2003 09:48:15




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 Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Dana, 10-06-2003 09:31:59  
I'll guess that's what they are talking about. Sure is a big fella!

If you look at them, obviously it costs 2wce as much as a regular plow. Plus the extra joints/hyd to wear out. I've only seen 1 or 2 of those here in Minnesota. I understand they are real popular in Europe - some areas anyhow.

--->Paul

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Allan

10-06-2003 09:53:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to LINK here -paul, 10-06-2003 09:48:15  
Hey Guys,

Yeah but, anyone notice this guy isn't plowing? He is 'scratching'. He has more plow than horse in this instance.

My opinion,

Allan



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Rod F.

10-06-2003 11:05:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Allan, 10-06-2003 09:53:10  
Ah, he's plowing deeper than it looks. Just sand. That is one big plow though. Stick those bottoms in some sod on clay soil, and he'll be going nowhere fast. I could never figure the efficiency gain on having a rollover that big. It's more effort to turn around and come right back, than to loop around on a proper split and crown. I guess they are handy for keepig a straight edge, and turning soil back up the hill. I guess I never really saw the point to them though. Just my opinion.

Rod

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Allan

10-06-2003 11:53:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Rod F., 10-06-2003 11:05:53  
Rod,

That is the beauty of a two-way tho. The forward motion never stops; the plow comes out of the ground, make a small loop into the unplowed ground (turn shaped like a hitchpin key) while spinning the plow and then come right back around & back into that same furrow without ever stopping. Never changing the engine speed, just pulling the torque.

I'm just windy today, I guess.

Allan



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twopop

10-06-2003 09:23:16




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 Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Allan, 10-06-2003 03:21:06  
the ways of preparing land for planting vary from one area to another,here in new mexico just about every farmer has a rollover/spinner plow.the new plow on the market is a switch plow,htat doesnt use a moldboard but has straight plow blade and is carried at about a 30 degree angle from the tractor,then is hydraulically switched to the opposite direction on turn-around.I grew up in california,and farming methods were differant than here,also when discussing field wouk,any time you put an implement in the field.you are (plowing)even if your pulling a disc.have a neighbor who just bought a new 6 bottom rollover to pull behind a 4WD ford 350 hp tractor

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Allan

10-06-2003 07:53:16




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 Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Allan, 10-06-2003 03:21:06  
Spinner plows is all that is used out here in Western Nebraska.
They are great to use, the dead furrow keeps you straight and I used a 3x16 on my 4020 with a packer and I had no problems going 4 mph.

Mark



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Mark

10-06-2003 10:30:13




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 Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Allan, 10-06-2003 07:53:16  
Allan,

Scottsbluff area

Regards,

Mark



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Allan

10-06-2003 10:49:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Mark, 10-06-2003 10:30:13  
Mark,

I'm just up the hill from you in the Chadron area. Small damned world. I was born in Scottsbluff 'bout 172 years ago.

Our farms are up on the Flats south of Hay Springs. Putting a pivot on one of them this fall after the crop is out.

Always had a warm spot in my heart for that valley area down there....

I was down to Frank Implement a week ago looking for a tractor...no joy; had to buy one down east.

Keep on keepin' on.

Allan

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Mark

10-06-2003 13:06:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Allan, 10-06-2003 10:49:05  
Allan,

What kind of tractor did you buy.
I am just now looking to put a JD 740 loader on my 7410 MFWD.
21st Century

Mark



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Allan

10-06-2003 07:55:23




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 Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Allan, 10-06-2003 07:53:16  
Hi Mark,

Where are you? I'm in Nebraska too.

Allan



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Red Dave

10-06-2003 07:24:49




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 Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Allan, 10-06-2003 03:21:06  
I assune you are talking about what we call rollover or 2 way plows.
They are twice the weight and a lot more expensive. I've never seen one bigger than 2 or 3 bottoms, but that doesn't mean nobody made them.

If you properly lay out the field you are going to plow, meaning plan how the furrows will lay, where you will start and finish, which way you will throw the dirt, you really don't need a rollover plow. The only place I see much advantage in them is in small fields or garden plots with no headlands to turn around in.

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big fred

10-06-2003 12:24:06




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 Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Red Dave, 10-06-2003 07:24:49  
There was a 6 or 7 bottom 2-way for sale at a small truck farm near here (Kent, WA) a couple years back. They were selling out to a larger producer and getting rid of the equipment used on their 153 acre veggie farm. They had a Case 970, the plow, 4 Cubs, a Super A and a 140, along with cultivators, sprayers and implements for the little ones. They'd plow with the big feller, then do the rest with manual labor and little tractors.

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Deas Plant.

10-06-2003 05:45:15




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 Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Allan, 10-06-2003 03:21:06  
Hi, Allan. By 'spinner' plows, do you mean disc plows as opposed to moldboard plows? Your terminology is foreign to me 'cos I live DownUnder in Australia, where moldboard ploughs are almost as common as hen's teeth and rocking horse manure.

Down here, the disc, or one-way plough is KING of the plows and we mostly do go round and round in ever-diminishing concentric whatever-shapes until we have to get out of there before we disappear into our own fundamental orifices. Most of our broad-acre cultivation is done this way, whatever the implement. You mostly find cultivation in rows done in smaller market garden type farms.

Hope this helps.

You have a wonderful Day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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buickanddeere

10-06-2003 19:57:26




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 Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Deas Plant., 10-06-2003 05:45:15  
I assume they plough in than out on alternating years? Or there will be a heap of top soil piled on the fences and growing sub soil hole in the center.



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Allan

10-06-2003 06:17:22




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 Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Deas Plant., 10-06-2003 05:45:15  
Hi Deas,

Yes, I'm familiar with your type of "plows". We call them one-ways here. A gang of large discs running at a rather steep angle to the direction of travel thereby cutting like a knife thru butter. Very common on large acreage’s (wheat fields), as you say.

No, what I'm talking about are the moldboard plows, which actually have two bottoms for each one "bottom" used. The opposing bottoms are stacked upside-down to one another and one set of moldboards are facing the opposite throw than the set which is currently in the ground.

In other words, you always have a set of moldboards standing mounted upside-down on top of the “in ground set” and they are always riding out of the ground.

They are built along the idea of the old tumble plows, but the bottom sets are hydraulically rotated or 'spun' over a center tube sideways instead of lengthwise.

This allows the plowing operation to run in both directions (returning right back into your furrow at the end of the field) and still throw the soil in the same direction, thereby allowing one to plow a field from one side to the other without leaving that dead furrow(s) in the middle of the field. Most common on irrigated farms and where a lot of trash has to be turned under.

Hope I've given you a mental picture; if I had a digital pic, I'd post it. :>)

Regards,

Allan

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Rob

10-06-2003 12:42:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Allan, 10-06-2003 06:17:22  
Thanks. I've seen pictures of them. I believe they're used with shuttle tractors that go to and fro in the same gear/speed. I've never seen any around here. Mostly large acreage grain, pulse and oilseeds grown here that are now mostly zero-till. Combines are fitted with choppers and spreaders to distribute trash. Alfalfa fields still get plowed under sometimes. I've used regular moldboard plows but now I usually rip up grass with a chisel plow (spikes) and then work it with a tandem disc. I'd prefer to plow but it's so slow going with a four bottom! I need to get a bigger plow someday.

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Dana

10-07-2003 05:47:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Rob, 10-06-2003 12:42:40  
Found another one. Link



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Rob

10-06-2003 06:01:05




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 Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Deas Plant., 10-06-2003 05:45:15  
If you're talking a "One way" disc, which were very common decades past up here, some of my fields still show their effect. The outside of the field has much more topsoil than the center. Over the years of going round and round in the same direction, the soil got moved to the outside. You can see it in the crop.



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Indydirtfarmer

10-06-2003 03:49:27




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 Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Allan, 10-06-2003 03:21:06  
Heavy! The bigger they are the more disproportionately heavy. Expensive. compared to "standard" plows More parts to wear. The extreme "simplicity" of a "standard mouldboard plow". Other than that, no good reason.



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Allan

10-06-2003 04:20:07




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 Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Indydirtfarmer, 10-06-2003 03:49:27  
Thanks Indy,

I knew there had to be a reason(s) why even to this day, you see more one-ways than spinners.

Although, (and I'm guessing) that if any given buyer would try the spinner, many of those reasons you quote would very quickly be offset by the efficiency of the two-way.

Just my opinion,

Allan



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Shane

10-06-2003 06:16:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Allan, 10-06-2003 04:20:07  
We got one smarter and totally eliminated the plow. No-till works really well for us, and I would assume that if you gave this a try ya might park that moldboard too.



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Allan

10-06-2003 06:30:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Shane, 10-06-2003 06:16:31  
Hi Shane,

Yes, I know where you are coming from in that respect, and you'll get no arguement from me.

Economics will always dictate farming practices as it always has. :>)

Later,

Allan



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RJ-AZ

10-06-2003 16:41:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to Allan, 10-06-2003 06:30:00  
Down here in cotton country the 2-way spinner plow is king. Most of the big farmers are running
5 or 6 16" bottoms behind MFWD high horse power tractors (JD 4855 or equivalent). They keep trying to sell them 4wd articulated tractors but they arent catching on here in the valley.



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Allan

10-06-2003 17:29:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can Someone Tell Me Why in reply to RJ-AZ, 10-06-2003 16:41:30  
RJ,

Yes, you're right. 6 18" bottoms takes a lot of ponies and usually a 4X4.

Allan



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