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ethanol and fuel mileage

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Terry

10-26-2003 08:35:08

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Which gives you the best fuel mileage, ethanol blend or pure unleaded fuel.

From my own experience, my mileage goes down about 10% when using ethanol blend. I have a couple of friends that say I am full of it. I read an article lately that said that while ethanol blend has a higher octane, the BTU's is
considerably less which causes lower mileage.

How is this related to tractor forum----- I haul tractors!

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Nate

10-29-2003 17:38:58

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Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Terry, 10-26-2003 08:35:08

A few years ago they came down on Diesel Fuel the same way. MAKE IT BURN CLEANER. What happened the industry adapted their machines to the fuel. That's what this is about. Used Ethanol is everything from cars to saws. Never blowed one up because of Ethanol

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ChrisL

10-27-2003 18:22:07

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Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Terry, 10-26-2003 08:35:08

Drive 400 miles to work each week - have 320,000 miles on my '91 Grand Am now - all original except for tires, a battery, an alternator and 5 water pumps.....
kept accurate mileage results for the past 3 years - can't tell any reduction in mileage with ethanol - however if u put a tank of ethanol in a vehicle that hasn't had it for several months or years , the first tank or two will be lower mileage because they are cleaning out the gas tank, lines, etc of excess gum, deposits, etc....

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DaveWis

10-27-2003 16:20:41

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Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Terry, 10-26-2003 08:35:08

I drive 176 miles round trip to work 6 days a week. Over the past 16 years of doing so I have had 6 different vehicles and tried straight unleaded and 90/10 gas/ethanol in each of them from several different stations and I average 12% lower mileage with the mix. You calculate the number of miles that is and decide if that is adequate to be a reasonable test.

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JOHN (LA)

10-27-2003 11:41:52

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Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Terry, 10-26-2003 08:35:08

I have noticed no differance in mileage with ethanol. There is or I should say has been problems with ethanol use in the past.
Ethanol is 107 octane. Problems they have had years ago was they store the gas and ethanol in separate tanks at the gas loading rack. The driver was in charge of mixing correctly. Today: because of the potential problems involved the rack mixes it automatically with computers. I do not know of any rack that the driver still mixes but there may be some. You can see that if it were not mixed correctly and you got all ethanol you would have problems.
Other things about ethanol that some may consider problems.
Ethanol is very dry and will allow gaskets and o-rings to dry rot and crack in older carbs. I would say engine manufacturers have taken care of this problem.
The one problem why I do not like ethanol is it will suspend a lot of water. It does not allow the natural process of water separation in large storage tanks to take place and usually your fuel filter is the one that pays for it.

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Mike

10-27-2003 07:30:33

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Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Terry, 10-26-2003 08:35:08

Use both ethanol blends and regular unleaded in Wisconsin. Prior to rebuilding the motor on my 64 Chevy, the seals in the carb were ruined by ethanol, however new seals are compatable.

I do not notice significant differences in mileage with either one. The ethanol will help remove water from system, and keep it cleaner.

I see more benifts than detriments to its use, but that is only my opinion.

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MapleStone

10-27-2003 07:26:40

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Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Terry, 10-26-2003 08:35:08

You're not full of anything!!

I had an 88 Toyota pick up truck with the 22RE 4 cylinder engine and if I ran ethanol gas in it, it would ping and knock like a bugger.

Took me a while to figure it out but it was the ethanol gas that caused it. When working for my uncle I would fill my truck from his tank as part of my pay for work. On that tank of gas my truck would run like crap. About half way through that week I would fill up from a gas station and the truck would run better. Then the next weekend it would happen again. He was buying an ethanol gas and in his 8 cylinder pick ups and dump trucks you couldn't notice any difference but in my little 4 banger you noticed it.

Now this was quite a few years ago so things might have changed.

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Slim dakota

10-27-2003 06:55:17

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Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Terry, 10-26-2003 08:35:08

I use the Ethanol blend in all my gas engines and have for years with no problems. Might have to change fuel filters a little more often is all.

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Bus Driver

10-27-2003 05:47:05

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Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Terry, 10-26-2003 08:35:08

Today's computer controlled fuel injection systems compensate for the difference in fuel-air ratios of the blend and pure gasoline. It is an inescapable fact that ethanol has lower BTU per gallon than does gasoline. That of itself means fewer miles per gallon. If the computer can advance the timing and the engine has spark knock detectors, most of the mileage difference might be eliminated by the higher octane of the ethanol. Carbureted engines are much more likely to have some problems with the blend. Adjustable high and low speed jets can accomodate the 10% blend, but re-adjustment would be necessary for best results.

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fixerupper

10-26-2003 20:36:32

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Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Terry, 10-26-2003 08:35:08

'IOWA' is right. If ethanol was bad for your engine, nothing in Iowa would be running anymore. We in Iowa use ethanol so regularly now that we just automatically grab the ethanol nozzle at the gas station, and the unfounded horror stories about ethanol have pretty well faded out. How can it 'burn' up a chainsaw it it has higher octane than regular gas?

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Joel Harman

10-27-2003 02:20:28

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Re: Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to fixerupper, 10-26-2003 20:36:32

"How" wasn't the issue at the time. The issue was it burned up the saw. Read below post.

I'm glad it works for you. We don't grow much corn out here where men are men & sheep are scared.

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fixerupper

10-26-2003 20:16:30

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Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Terry, 10-26-2003 08:35:08

I have a '79 dodge pickup with a 360 that got about 9 mpg in short driving.Quite a few years ago I advanced the timing to try to get a little better power/mileage. I can't realy say that it had more power,but it did have a little better mileage. The down side was it was pinging pretty good. Ethanol was something new then and I had heard it had a higher octane, so I found a station that sold it and filled the tank(s) with it. The ethanol mixture stopped the pinging and the mileage stayed up. The only problem was I had to use ethanol all of the time at a time when it was hard to find. Now here in Iowa it can be found in almost every station and I use it all of the time. Only had trouble with it once and that was with a '76' plymouth 318. The ethanol dried out the accelerator pump diaphraghm. I found out that was the only model year it gave trouble, and I could not get an ethanol resistant diaphraghm for it any where. Almost any newer vehicle will not have any problems.

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Joel Harman

10-26-2003 19:38:48

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Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Terry, 10-26-2003 08:35:08

Burned up a chainsaw running 10% through it. Not readily available in oregon

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bull sh---=

10-27-2003 16:09:18

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Re: Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Joel Harman, 10-26-2003 19:38:48

bull sh==

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dhermesc

10-27-2003 11:38:39

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Re: Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Joel Harman, 10-26-2003 19:38:48

You still have to add oil to the gas even if it is ethanol. What exactly do you mean by "burned up"?

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rustyfarmall

10-27-2003 06:54:53

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Re: Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Joel Harman, 10-26-2003 19:38:48

You obviously had other problems than the 10% ethanol, I run the ethanol in everything I own, including the Stihl chainsaw, weedeaters, and when my son and I spent Sunday afternoons tearing up the trails with our Yamaha and Kawasaki 2 stroke dirt bikes, we used ethanol in them also.

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Iowa

10-26-2003 20:06:40

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Re: Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Joel Harman, 10-26-2003 19:38:48

I run 10% ethanol in tractors 50 years old and older. Also have a blue homelite chain saw that starts better on the 10 per cent. Have checked the gas mileage on 200 mile trips and have found there is absolutely no difference between the two different fuels. The oil companys dont like it of course. We took a trip to Seattle and asked people about 10 percent ethanol, half the people were told not to use it because it was not good for their car, what bull. If that was the case 98 percent of all the cars in Iowa would not be running. In Iowa it is 2-3 cents cheaper. GO ETHANOL

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Joel Harman

10-27-2003 02:15:59

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Re: Re: Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Iowa, 10-26-2003 20:06:40

I'm glad it works for you. I too have used it in my car with success. However a rebuild on the saw taught me about 2 strokes. This was a husqvarna & I was killing trees for a living at the time. Had to use my back up saw & used fuel without ethanol in it.

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Sam#3

10-26-2003 10:36:08

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Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Terry, 10-26-2003 08:35:08

I have an '83 Mazda B2000 I ran on ethanol for years when I was in the Denver area and now than I'm in SW Missouri and can get it again. I cannot tell the difference either in milage or performance. It's priced there cents higher than regular now so I only use it every third tank to keep the water out.

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Dr Cy Kosis

10-26-2003 10:41:29

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Re: Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Sam#3, 10-26-2003 10:36:08

Don't you mean Gasohol?

Gasohol is commonly 90% gasoline and 10% ethanol.

If you'd run pure ethanol you'd durn sure seen a difference.

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Sam#3

10-26-2003 10:54:32

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Re: Re: Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Dr Cy Kosis, 10-26-2003 10:41:29

I stand corrected. I started to post a correction when your message came.

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Dr Cy Kosis

10-26-2003 10:29:38

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Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Terry, 10-26-2003 08:35:08

It takes twice as much ethanol/alcohol to run an engine as it does gasoline. Gas burns at 14 to 1 air fuel ratio while ethanol burns at 7 to 1 in an engine. Until recent years it was uncommon to run ethanol through carburetors because the passage ways in the carb bodies could pass enough fuel throuh them. Over time special alcohol ccompatible carburetors were developed for racing that made it more commmon to run alcohol without the expese of constant flow fuel injection that had been common before. Ethanol/alcohol makes some good horsepower though. It allows a lot of advance and compression without detonation and it has a massive cooling effect on the intake charge during vaporization. Cooler air is denser air, and denser air allows more fuel to be burned, and makes more power.

10% ethanol by calculation would require richening up the fuel mixture enough that it should reduce the fuel mileage by 5%.

I found out years ago that "Gasohol" in air cooled motorcycle engine was a real bad idea unless you fatten it up a few jet sizes.

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paul

10-26-2003 09:37:58

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Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to Terry, 10-26-2003 08:35:08

Ethanol has less BTU's, and gives a bit less milage, but does have other positives. Other octane booster cost more, it's a natural de-icer & system cleaner, it's more stable, less pollutants.

But yes, most people get a bit less milage on it. 10% would seem a lot?????

--->Paul

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dhermesc

10-27-2003 11:45:33

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Re: Re: ethanol and fuel mileage in reply to paul, 10-26-2003 09:37:58

In Kansas 10% ethanol mix usually sells the same price as regular. Regular is usually 87 octane and the ethanol mix in 89 octane to account for the lower BTU. The two usually sell for the same price, depending on the station some times you can tell the differance and other times you can't.

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