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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT California wildfires...fireproof your house/tra

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26Red

10-27-2003 14:35:42




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Watching the news- and thought, if I lived in California, how could I make my house fireproof from wildfires? I have a buddy out there that has been lucky so far, but he was asking me for ideas..




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Hal/WA

10-30-2003 01:07:26




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 Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof your house in reply to 26Red, 10-27-2003 14:35:42  
The first thing that would help is building your house in an area that is least likely to burn fast. Lots of those canyons should never have had houses built in them. The dry, heavy brush and steep slopes provide ideal conditions for wildfire and a "chimney" effect. I have never understood why California continues to allow building in areas that have burned before and almost certainly will burn again. And I wonder why insurance companies will write policies in those areas. I bet their costs are high!

It is possible to build houses that are less likely to burn than other houses. I would think that the tile roofs I have seen down there would be pretty good, assuming that they have no openings where wind driven embers can contact flammable materials or blow into the attic. Stucco also seems like an appropriate outer wall covering. But probably most important is maintaining a defensible space around the buildings, which means no bushes right next to the house, no trees for some distance and either green grass or no vegetation--gravel or stone for say, 50 feet. Maybe there is a way to make a wood deck fireproof, but I don't know about it. Concrete seems like a better idea to me. Windows would have to be covered with nonburnable shutters and have glass that would not shatter if exposed to high heat. And probably the houses would need to be spread out quite far, so the heat from a burning one would not ignite its neighbor.

And even with everything you could think to do, very possibly houses would still be lost. Those hot wind-driven firestorms are incredible.

In my area August and September and sometimes October are very dry. Much of the area is forested and it is getting more and more populated with people living on 5 to 40 acre parcels. We have had several wind-driven fires around here that have consumed thousands of acres and a good many of the homes in the fire's paths.

In such a firestorm, all the fire departments using all of their apparatus and personnel are stretched beyond their limits. Under such conditions, YOU HAVE TO FEND FOR YOURSELF! The only things that will work if a fire comes through are good construction planning for a potential fire, defensible space and hopefully a bit of personal firefighting. You have to have your own water supply, and because the electric power will probably go off, you need to either have a portable gasoline powered pump or a generator to power your well pump. If you have not prepared for a fire beforehand, you better get out of there. Maybe you could save some small prized posessions, like photos and the like, but saving your family is all that really matters. Good insurance is a must.

A number of years ago, a firestorm went through a housing development a few miles from where I live. The houses there were medium to high end and many had split cedar shake roofs, which I understand was part of the neighborhood covenant in some of the development. There were also lots of pine trees. In the areas where the main fire went through, almost all of the homes were burned down to the concrete foundations. However it was eerie to see a few houses among the burned out foundations, that had almost no damage at all. Every one of those surviving houses had relatively new composition roofs and most of them did not have valleys where the wind blown dry pine needles would collect.

The area rebuilt and now almost no split cedar roofs remain. But at least 50 families lost all their belongings that day. Luckily no lives were lost.

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Howard Yoshida

10-28-2003 11:37:41




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 Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof your house in reply to 26Red, 10-27-2003 14:35:42  
Aloha, Build your your house underground with a swimming pool on the top. No view but a little water to fight the fire around you. If you live in an area where there are trees all around you with no fire break, then there isn't very much that you can do.I read an article in the news paper where some people are using the old missle silos as a home. Now is the bullet proof or not!

Mahalo,
Howard

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T213R

10-28-2003 10:55:00




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 Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof your house in reply to 26Red, 10-27-2003 14:35:42  
Offshore, underwater habitat! Being underwater, wildfires won't affect you in the slightest. No property taxes either! You WILL need to own a small submarine, however.



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Willy-N

10-28-2003 12:58:14




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 Re: Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof your h in reply to T213R, 10-28-2003 10:55:00  
And hope you don't spring a leak while your sleeping! Mark H.



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T213R

10-29-2003 13:10:05




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 Re: Re: Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof yo in reply to Willy-N, 10-28-2003 12:58:14  
Hey, they said FIREPROOF, nothing was said about flooding!



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Willy-N

10-29-2003 13:50:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT California wildfires...fireproo in reply to T213R, 10-29-2003 13:10:05  
Flooding is Fire Proofing to me when it is in the flames! Up here 6,000 Gals is like 20 plus brush trucks empting there tanks on your place and that is not going to happen during a fire since it takes them around 10 to 30 mins to get full again. Mark H.



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kyhayman

10-28-2003 08:55:38




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 Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof your house in reply to 26Red, 10-27-2003 14:35:42  
I get a lot of grief from some folks for some of the 'less than bright' things I do with farm equip. Certainly respect those of you who would stay and fight for your house in a fire.

This isn't my game,though. Ten years on the firedept and I learned that anything can be replaced or duplicated; things don' matter, life does. If the fire is inside you simply lose your stuff to water damage if you have sprinklers or the f.d comes in, instead of losing your stuff to the fire. It's still ruined.

For me, I prefer good insurance and a better evacuation plan. My prayers with those of you who want to stay and fight.

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Willy-N

10-28-2003 10:24:19




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 Re: Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof your h in reply to kyhayman, 10-28-2003 08:55:38  
Allways be prepaired to leave and have a place to go. Just don't expect fire fighters to save your home in those condisions. They can only do so much fighting fires. Do what you can to save the place but don't lose your life in the process. If you do not know what you are doing leave or get trained. I would have lost my place if I did not fight it. 9 people around me went to town and left us to fight the fires and lost there homes. We could have used more help with the fire. I stayed at my place till it got to hot then went to the safe zone allready picked out and came back in after the bad flames were past my house and put out the spot fires. You need to be prepaired for fires and some places because of other property next to it can't be saved. Know your limints and do what you can. I also had insurance in case I did not stop the fire but I put a lot of work into my place and had over 100 animals also to deal with. Did not lose one of them and only 35 of my 40 acres burned but I saved all of the buildings and the areas around them with hard work. I am even better prepaired now but I also designed my place so I could protect it and keep up with the brush and tall grass too. Living in a bad area for fires you need to do something other than put your head in the sand and hope for the best. Mark H. Dist #8 Wildland Fire Fighter

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tlak

10-28-2003 07:07:38




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 Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof your house in reply to 26Red, 10-27-2003 14:35:42  
Over the years I always wondered why CA didnt implement clear cut fire barriers. Get over the pretty and go practical. They could use highway systems or power lines or path of least resistance and clear cut 1/2 mile on each side. All trees dont need to be remove maybe spaced or topped and grass regularly mowed with probably a firetruck handy. Cost cost cost, so if they had implemented it over the last fifty years in the most critical areas it would have done paid off.
Sorry for anybodys loss

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Stan TN

10-27-2003 23:47:16




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 Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof your house in reply to 26Red, 10-27-2003 14:35:42  
About all your friend could do now is put a rain bird sprinkler on the roof, turn on the water and get the heck out. When I lived there I had one permanently plumbed in. The shutters are an excellent idea. The steel shingles are prohibitivly expensive and are seperated from the roof only by 1x2 furring strips, I doubt they'd do much if a bunch of embers landed on them. That is the biggest cause of fires jumping the lines.

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John S-B

10-29-2003 07:10:32




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 Re: Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof your h in reply to Stan TN, 10-27-2003 23:47:16  
Steel shingles would conduct heat to the furring strips and ignite them and you would have fire in the attic, a very hard fire to fight.



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JD-Tractor

10-27-2003 21:40:54




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 Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof your house in reply to 26Red, 10-27-2003 14:35:42  
We here in Western NY(Buffalo area)moan about all the snow and rain we get but I sure feel a lot more blessed than those poor buggers out in California with their wildfires. Keep them in your prayers.



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Willy-N

10-27-2003 20:16:06




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 Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof your house in reply to 26Red, 10-27-2003 14:35:42  
I have 3-40 GPM Sprinklers perminently on my roofs run by a 125 gpm 75 psi gasoline opperated pump. This is all hooked to a 6,000 gallon under ground tank. I can turn it on when things get close and HOT and it will run for about 1 hour and I feed my well into it at the same time. Sure does a good job of wetting things down fast! Just a little extra protection and I am building my own fire truck also with a 1,200 gal tank and pump set up. I also have about 1,000 ft of 1 1/2' fire hose, several nozzles, Barricade and a portable tank on a trailer with a pump I can pull behind my tractor for spot fires and clean up. When things get bad it is every man for himself and I like having my home. I saved it once and will do it again if I have to. Nothing like watching a Fire Ball over your house for about 30 mins and it still being there when you go back in!! Mark H.

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big fred

10-27-2003 19:34:07




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 Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof your house in reply to 26Red, 10-27-2003 14:35:42  
My daughter lives in Escondido and said the San Diego County fire was about 3 miles from her house. Her house is stucco and has clay tile roof, as do all the other houses in her neighborhood. Short of building outa concrete and steel, I think that's about as good as you're gonna get.



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John S-B

10-27-2003 19:43:26




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 Re: Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof your h in reply to big fred, 10-27-2003 19:34:07  
The problem with steel in a situation like this is that it can conduct heat to combustible material inside. If you have a brick or concrete block house you could put unfaced R-13 over the windows and cover with sheet metal. It might work with stucco over wood if the stucco was thick enough.



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John S-B

10-27-2003 19:25:06




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 Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof your house in reply to 26Red, 10-27-2003 14:35:42  
Good info from Matt, I would add a few things. Stucco or masonary finish on all outside walls and insulated shutters that you can BOLT over the windows. The radiant heat can ignite contents on the inside through the windows if they are not covered. Also a sprinkler system in the house. A pre piped pumping system if you have a pool would probably pay for itself in insurance savings in a few years, the general rule for commercial structures is ten years to pay off the cost of installation. Preplanning is the key, now is a little late to put this together. Pray for those people, they need all the help they can get!

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Matt

10-27-2003 15:09:37




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 Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof your house in reply to 26Red, 10-27-2003 14:35:42  
-- Get rid of wood shingles. Asphalt, steel, or for god's sake it's California, go with Terra Cotta
-- Cut back the trees & brush around your home
-- Make sure you clean out debris (leaves, dry grass) near the home.
-- Make sure openings (eaves, foundation vents) have good screens on them to keep burning debris from blowing inside.
-- And for the serious DIY firefighter, a swimming pool, a pump from Northern Hydraulics, 150' of 1.5" hose and some Barricade Gel -->Link

For a more thorough discussion,>Link

Matt>Link

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Deas Plant

10-28-2003 05:32:02




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 Re: Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof your h in reply to Matt, 10-27-2003 15:09:37  
Hi, Folks. We have our fair share of fires DownUnder in Australia too. If, as appears to be the case from the news footage we get to see down here, a lot of these homes are parked in tiny holes in the scrub/bush/forest it's no wonder they are burnt out. Far too many of the people who live in similar situations down here and who get burnt out are 'greenies' who go bush to be close to nature, refuse to clear the bush back from their homes and then complain when the VOLUNTEER Bush Fire Brigades can't save their homes from their own stupidity.

If it suited me, which it may well do in the next few years, I would build in the bush. But, it would not be a conventional home. It would be an earth-covered, cast-in-situ concrete structure with an extended roof of around 4 feet at the front. ALL external openings would be protected by FITTED steel shutters designed to keep sparks and heat out.

Such a house is not quite as cheap to build as a conventional home and not everybody can afford them. The essentials of protecting an above ground dwelling are simple.
1. Clear the bush back.
2. Clear the bush back.
3. Clear the bush back.
4. Take all precautions possible to prevent fire, heat or sparks getting to any part of the building where they can ignite anything.
5. Sprinkler systems, BULK water supplies and pumps that DON'T rely on mains power are all good investments. So are a shovel, a rake and a hoe -- for clearing brush and grass around your home.

Hope this helps.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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VaTom

10-29-2003 05:06:10




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 Re: Re: Re: OT California wildfires...fireproof yo in reply to Deas Plant, 10-28-2003 05:32:02  
Hi Deas,
As you know, we live in an underground concrete house. I also built one for a client. His appraisal just came through. Turned out to be substantially more than it cost to build. We were really tickled.

These can be cheaper than conventional houses, easily 1/3 cheaper per sq ft and the heating/cooling bill is almost nothing. When I applied for home owner's insurance the underwriter had to come out to see what I was insuring. Next question was why I wanted fire insurance. Which was of little concern to me, I wanted the whole package.

Tropical storm Isabel (former hurricane) came directly through and took out a lot of trees, including an 80 footer behind the house, a portion landing on our dirt roof. We didn't know about it until I saw it the next morning.

We don't live in a high fire risk area and are comfortable with the forest starting 15' from the house. Next underground house is started, with a swimming pool, and we were told we'd still get a reduction on insurance rates due to the pool.

This is the best place I've yet found to wake up every day. Just about zero maintenance, other than making sure trees don't get going on the roof. Bad place for a big tree.

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