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why don't farmers save seed corn?.

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Jonathan

11-09-2003 19:51:08

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Hello, I was wondering why none of the farmers pick some of their corn for seed. I would think it would be alot more economical than buying seed every year. I was talking with a farmer tonight and he said it takes $10,000 worth of seed corn to plant 300acres. Is the treated stuff to put on the seed costly?. Does untreated seed have a high success rate?.
thanks!

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JMS/MN

11-10-2003 22:44:31

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Re: why don't farmers save seed corn?. in reply to Jonathan, 11-09-2003 19:51:08

The simple answer is that corn grown from hybrid seed will not produce anywhere near what the hybrid variety did. Seed corn is grown from two PARENT lines, and produces very little yield- 25- 70 bu per acre or so, depending on the year and conditions. The seed from those parent lines is the HYBRID VARIETY that the farmer plants. If he saves seed from that, it produces squat. It has been that way since hybrids were developed in the 1930s or so. Not a recent innovation. Development of hybrid corn is one of the most important innovations of agriculture in the last century. Soybeans are a different ball game, since farmers can save seed from one year and get reasonable yields from that saved seed. Monsanto, with it's Roundup-Ready technology, imposes a technology fee on companies that produce seed with that technology, and the companies pass that fee along to the farmer, along with demanding an agreement that the farmer not use seed produced from the subsequent crop. (Brownbagging). It is all spelled out in the sales agreement when the farmer buys the GM seed.

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Paul

11-10-2003 15:43:17

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Re: why don't farmers save seed corn?. in reply to Jonathan, 11-09-2003 19:51:08

The way they detassel seed corn in mid-WI is this, They first use a machine on tall stilts that passes over the top of the corn, it's usually a 4 row. It has 4 sets, of 2 rubber rollers that are tight together running in opposite directions that pulls the tassel (and some of the top leaves) up and shoots them out the top. then they still have to follow up with crews that pick the few tassels the machine misses. I used to do this and it is hard work,but one day I made $300 just going over some rows that another crew did that didn't pass inspection.

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max

11-10-2003 17:04:50

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Re: Re: why don't farmers save seed corn?. in reply to Paul, 11-10-2003 15:43:17

Paul
Used to work for kussmauls later dairyland seed in the early 80s, never made that much in a week.
Musta been a looooo ong day.
max

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Jonathan....Thanks!

11-10-2003 07:05:14

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Re: why don't farmers save seed corn?. in reply to Jonathan, 11-09-2003 19:51:08

you've answered my question well. Now I'm just wondering what the process is on hybrid seed?. How do seed companies make the seed with the hybrid traits intact?.

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VADAVE

11-10-2003 08:54:15

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Re: Re: why don't farmers save seed corn?. in reply to Jonathan....Thanks!, 11-10-2003 07:05:14

I've not seen it done, just talked about. As i understand it one variety is grown and the ears a pollinated with the other variety. Think of the work involved--strip off the tops of the crops and then hand pollinate with the correct tops. This has to be mechanized somehow, I just don't know how.

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RayP(MI)

11-10-2003 10:28:49

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Re: Re: Re: why don't farmers save seed corn?. in reply to VADAVE, 11-10-2003 08:54:15

Some of the seed growers raise seed in this area. During the summer they employ high school students to hand detassel corn. Have also seen mechanical detasslers which are used to cut the tops off the corn. Don't know which one yields the best results. I have not really paid attention, but I assume they plant the two vatieties in alternating rows, so removing the tassels from one variety assures that the corn will be fertilized by the next row. Since hybrids are specific crosses between pure varieties, they would carry characteristics of each, and succeeding generations may not show the same desired traits. We plant potatoes and oats back from previous crops, but need to refresh the stock after a couple or three years. As far as the corn seed company, I understand they take a narrow view of a farmer using leftover seed not used the previous year. This bothers me, as the farmer paid for it, even if he didn't use it this year. Understand the seed company doesn't like it nohow! (In some crops year old seed does not germinate near as well as "fresh.")

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paul

11-10-2003 10:37:48

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Re: Re: Re: Re: why don't farmers save seed corn?. in reply to RayP(MI), 11-10-2003 10:28:49

Used to be 2 rows of male plants, 4 rows of female plants. The females got detasseled. With wider equipment, patterns have changed. You can only harvest the females for seed, the males of course produce the wrong combo.

Lately they have 1 male row, and smash it down totally flat after pollination. Used to be it was harvested for (low yield) corn or silage, but with wide equipment has become more 'efficient' to just mash it.

I've never heard of mechanical detasselers that actually worked, just one or 2 missed tassels will ruin a field. When a bag of corn seed runs $120-201 - folks better get what they pay for!

--->Paul

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RayP(MI)

11-10-2003 10:26:45

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Re: Re: Re: why don't farmers save seed corn?. in reply to VADAVE, 11-10-2003 08:54:15

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Allan

11-10-2003 10:21:07

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Re: Re: Re: why don't farmers save seed corn?. in reply to VADAVE, 11-10-2003 08:54:15

Dave,

The last I knew, they were still doing it by hand.

Allan

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VADAVE

11-10-2003 05:49:52

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Re: why don't farmers save seed corn?. in reply to Jonathan, 11-09-2003 19:51:08

What both Paul and Indydirtfarmer have said is true. The deal with hybred is that carry-over seed will revert to one of the orginal varieties. With gene engineering (read round-up ready) the characteristics carry from generation to generation. That is why Monsanto has a patent and enforces it so hard--if they didn't pretty quick everyone would grow round-up ready and Monsanto wouldn't make their money.

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paul

11-09-2003 20:01:49

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Re: why don't farmers save seed corn?. in reply to Jonathan, 11-09-2003 19:51:08

Hybred seed corn.

The seed corn we buy is made from crossing 2 types of corn that only produce 40 or so bu per acre. This cross gives us corn that can produce 200 bu. But the corn it produces would produce, at best, 80 bu per acre yields again.

We need to buy new hybred seed each year to try to get near 200bu per acre yields.

"Open pollinated' corn is available, you can save seed from it. however, it does not yield nearly as well, 80-100 bu would be tops.

--->Paul

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Indydirtfarmer

11-10-2003 03:16:47

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Re: Re: why don't farmers save seed corn?. in reply to paul, 11-09-2003 20:01:49

What Paul said is true. PLUS, All of the companies currently producing "Round-up ready" seed, have patents/copy rights, on their seed, and it's "name(s)". You are forbidden from using it as a "second generation seed". This applies to soybeans as well.

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